Snape Loved or In-Love with Lily?

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 148456

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Sydney 
> > *rubs hands together*   Ah, the Snape/Lily bandwagon is piling up
> > with mournful-looking souls playing reluctant dirges on their
> > teeny-tiny violins.   

Jen looks up reluctantly from her teeny-tiny violin and whine with 
> cheese and smugly says to herself: "Look, Sydney with her 
> cheerleading uniform on. Hah! Like JKR is going to hang her series 
> on *that* one." Jen sniggers behind her hand, wondering how Syndey 
> will take the bad news and whether she should share her weensy 
> violin when the time comes?

Ceridwen:
I'm more ACID POPS after Spinner's End, but I'll play, since Sydney 
is such a good Rah-rah.

Sydney:
> Flee!  Flee in terror before my cheerleading uniform of doom <g>!
Sydney earlier: 
> > The black-swathed ambiguous guy tortured but ennobled by his
> > unspoken passion for the lily-white heroine-- what's not to love?
> >  So it's a romantic, corny cliche that went out with the horse-
and-
> > buggy.  <snip> 

Ceridwen:
Cliches are overused plots or sayings.  The reason they're overused 
is because they're so satisfyingly resonant.  They get the job done.  
They're a shorthand we all understand.  People turn their noses up to 
cliches, yet sooner or later, we all have to bow to the inevitable, 
and admit that they fill a truthful purpose, or they would not have 
been used enough to become cliche in the first place.

> 
> Sydney:
> > -- What keeps being hinted as the theme of the whole series?  Oh,
> > yeah,love.

Jen:
> Love everywhere, who needs love? We already saw one version of 
> unrequited love and it wasn't a pretty picture. Maybe JKR doesn't 
> hold as noble a view of this particular cliche.

*(brief pause while Ceridwen rearranges everything)*

Alla: 
> > And Tom Riddle Sr. and Merope seem like such a nice foreshadowing 
> > for Snape possibly wanting to drug Lily with Love Potion and 
> > (maybe?) abandoning such idea at some point. Heeee! You know my
> > not very flattering opinion of his moral character. :)

> Jen: LOL! Now I haven't read *that* theory yet.;) I may be the only 
> one who thinks Slughorn's talk of obsessive love and the Tom 
> Riddle/Merope deal had nothing to do with Snape and Lily and 
> everything to do with Voldemort. But oh well, we can't get 
> everything we want, right?

Ceridwen:
Everyone talks about the near-misses, the mirror images that are and 
yet are not.  LV's half-blood status, Snape's half-blood status, 
Harry's half-blood status, poor upbringings for all three, yet three 
different choices which significantly alter the life path of each 
person.  Why not another unrequited love?  Only one that didn't end 
in the worst possible choice?  And if you need Harry to fill in point 
number three, he already had his unrequited love, tried it, didn't 
like it, and moved on.  Cho wasn't ready to move on.  Or didn't 
anyone else see a sadly tragic Cho with her swan Patronus?  Swans 
mate for life, and deeply mourn their departed mate.

Sydney:
> > -- Sydney, who can't WAIT for S/L stuff in book 7.  Cheer UP,
> > people, it'll be FUN, I promise.
 
Jen: Maybe? I'll hold out hope if she does go there I won't cringe 
> like the rest of the romance sections make me do. Mystery, 
> characterization, convoluted plotting? Love 'em. Romance? Wade 
> through it to the good stuff.

Ceridwen:
Unrequited love isn't romance.  Been there, done that.  It hurts.  
And JKR does pretty well with the torture.  I'm just hoping we won't 
get CAPSLOCK!Snape if she does go there - Snape's already dramatic 
enough.  Can you imagine him emoting?

Alla:
> > Oh, but since I think the love was mainly from Snape' side, do
> > they have to be equals?
 
Jen: Oops, misunderstood that. No, that seems like her pattern only 
> with actual couples.

Ceridwen:
Isn't that the point of unrequited love?  Only the most 
deserving 'gets the girl'.  And when the unequal couple does marry, 
tragedy ensues.  I do consider Romeo and Juliet to be an unequal 
couple in a way, because of the feud.  The family's dislike for the 
other family is a sufficient mirror for the rich family's dislike of 
the poor family, or the attorney's family's dislike of the criminal's 
family.  It's a cliche of keeping to one's own.  Admit it, if Merope 
had kept to her own, none of this would have happened.  The only 
problem with Marvolo's idea of Merope's own is that he probably 
thought it should be Morphin.

> Alla:
> > And yes, it exactly what it feels like to me - that JKR is doing
> > it on purpose - *(snip)*
> 
> Jen, with hands over her eyes: I know, I know! It's hard to even 
> argue anymore. I'm still disappointed in the idea Snape's mystery 
> will boil down to unrequited love for a girl 20 years 
> ago...sigh...there are so many other things JKR writes so *well*. 
*(snip)*
> Just the thought of Snape collapsing 
> down, as Nora also puts it, into a heap of blubbering lost love is 
> just...painful, yep, that's the word.

Ceridwen:
Oh, yeah.  Doing it on purpose.  And as I said, CAPSLOCK!Snape would 
not be my idea of a quiet read.  It would be worse if he collapses, 
CAPSLOCK and all, into a heap of blubbering lost love!  But so far, I 
haven't been disappointed overall with the series or I would have 
stopped reading it a long time ago.

Jen:
> Anyway, just read Tonks post before posting this one and think 
maybe 
> she has a good idea: It's the hatred of the Marauders, the life 
debt 
> and feelings for Lily rolled up in one. Now that sounds like some 
> drama and angst, doesn't it? All those competing factors 
> contributing in the end.

Ceridwen:
And that could make all the difference in the scenario being 
believable, or being not just cliche, but trite and downright 
stupid.  Otherwise, Snape has had more than enough time to move on 
from both the unrequited love, and the schoolyard hatred.  That 
teensy little point of his info leading to the Potters' death is a 
very good hook to hang it all.

> Jen R., knowing she is a Scrooge about this one but thinking if 
> Sydney plays her jolly trombone she might just have to stuff a sock 
> in it. <g>

Ceridwen, who has a mute, never used, in the upstairs bedroom.