Why does Snape wants DADA job if it cursed? LONG

[Sydney]

No: HPFGUIDX 148843

 Lupinlore:

>If we were to
>discover that all the DADA teachers in the last two or three decades
>had spectacular meltdowns that would be one thing, but if there are a
>lot of notations like "Went to work at Gringott's" or "Joined the
>Auror office" that would be another thing entirely.

Random speculation:  Slugnhorn says love potions "can strengthen, you
know, the longer they're kept" (hbp am. ed., pg.395).  So maybe the
DADA curse is the same?  It's hard to picture Dumbeldore being able to
get ANYBODY, if candidates consistently got killed, brain-wiped,
outed, or stuffed in trunks for a year (did the DADA curse hit Moody,
or Crouch Jr., or both?). Hagrid says in CoS: "People aren't too keen
to take it on, see. They're starting to think it's jinxed. No one's
lasted long fer a while." (thanks, Pippin!).  So maybe it went from
relatively mild stuff, escalating to the catastrophes we get by the
time Harry's there.  Actually, this could further be explained by
V-mort's increasing corporeality-- the more anchored his spirt is in
the world, the stronger his curse gets?

Ceridwen:
>From what we did see, IMO, there was a
>very subtle difference between the first DADA intro and the first
>Potions intro.  ... Someone mentioned the fact
>that Snape isn't as OTT this year, at least not from Harry's point of
>view.  Snape 'says' instead of 'sneers', for instance, when Harry
>makes that 'sir' crack. As opposed to Potions, where he seemed tense.
>Maybe he really does want to teach DADA.

I think a more resonant explanation for Snape's calmer demeanor, is
that he knows this is his last year teaching, and is already focusing
ahead to... getting back to V-mort at last, getting back to bringing
down V-mort full-time at last, dying, whatever.  I'd say 'frustration'
was Snape's dominant mood in Potions class, but I really think it
makes more sense that this was due to being stuck there, wheras,
unless he's an idiot, he must realize the DADA job only lasts one
year.  Look, there was a reason so many people thought Snape wanting
the DADA job so badly was just one of those school rumours-- it's
because it really doesn't ring true.  It's a child's view of an adult,
that the one job would be sooo much more important to someone than the
other.  Snape's problem with teaching Potions is obviously the
teaching, not the Potions.  If they were making Snape teach gym, I
would understand, but Snape love of Potions and Dark arts is about on
the same level--his Potions book was crammed with notes on both. 
Okay, maybe he loves Dark Arts a sliver more, but it's a difference
without a distinction.

Ceridwen:
>Let's put these two together. [Maybe he really does want to teach
DADA.] Snape thought he could break the
>curse.  He assumed that either a) LV would lift it, or b) LV would
>give him the formula to break it, both suggestions because if there's
>a curse, it seems LV placed it, and Snape is, to LV, LV's man in
>Hogwarts.  Why would he want his man ousted?  If Snape really prefers
>this job, then he might want this to be true.

Well, Snape was applying for this every year when V-mort was
missing-vapourmort as well, so I don't see how he thought he could
communicate to him that, by the way, could he lift the DADA curse for
him while he was floating around in limbo?'.  Also, this doesn't
explain why Dumbledore doesn't give him the job.  This is a very
important point that I haven't seen anybody cover.  I can't see that
it's because Dumbledore is more worried about something happening to
Snape than something happening to, say, Lupin or Moody. I don't know,
maybe Dumbledore really, really likes Snape as a Potions teacher and
doesn't want to lose him?  *is dubious*.  

Lupinlore:
>Perhaps the question of Snape wanting the DADA job is a "Sometimes a
>cigar..." moment.  Sometimes things really don't go any deeper than
>they appear.  We've already had some of those.  In the wake of OOTP,
>there was a thriving industry of threads having to do with DD's "real"
>intent in Harry living with the Dursleys.  That is he was "training"
>Harry, he did not want Harry to grow up spoiled, yada, yada, yada.
>But, it would appear from HBP that, no, there was never any reason
>other than the obvious one -- he really thought it was the only way to
>keep Harry alive.  Similarly, there was a major, in fact overwhelming,
>group of threads having to do with the "real" shipping patterns under
>the surface of the Potterverse.  But no, sometimes -- in fact very
>often -- the obvious answer is the correct one.

I think your example points towards another trait of JKR's writing
though-- not 'obviousness', but strength, simplicity, and clarity in
motivations.  The thing that pops into my head is Ludo Bagman wanting
Harry to win the tournament: Bagman presents it as simply taking a
sudden liking for Harry for no particual reason;  the reader is left
to play with ESE!interpretations, and then we resolve it with the very
simple, straightforward, and in-character bet with the goblins.

Lupinlore:
>With regard to Snape, the answer may be that his apparent irrational
>>obsession is... well... an irrational obsession.  We've all known such
>cases -- i.e. someone who has a deep seated and fundamental desire for
>something that we can clearly see will not only NOT bring them the
>happiness they think it will but will, in fact, be actively harmful.
...
>In a very real sense, people possessed by such obsessions are addicts --
> it's just that they are addicted to certain dreams and goals as
>opposed to drugs or alcohol or abusive relationships.  And addicts are
>accomplished liars, both to themselves and others.  It's the way they
>protect and preserve their addiction.

>If you buy into the DADA curse, it would nevertheless be very
>realistic, from a human standpoint, for Snape to constantly be making
>up reasons to himself and others why he should get the job, anyway.
>...After Voldy's returned, he probably convinced himself
>just as firmly that the curse would not apply to HIM.  He could break
>it if he wanted to, or else Voldemort would remove it once Snape, who
>is at least playing at getting Voldemort's man, gets the job.  In fact,
>he probably believed all three things at once.  


You lose me with the 'addict' analogy-- he's addicted to applying for
the DADA job?  He's addicted to the Dark Arts?  But couldn't he be
practicing Dark Arts without teaching them?  Why the obsession with
the job itself?  You say, oh, it's just an irrational obsession-- you
seem to be saying that there is simply no understandable explanation
for Snape's mindset here, so why even bother?  I'll call this the,
"How am I supposed to understand how a werewolf's mind works"
explanation... I just want to know, why do you think Snape keeps
appying for the DADA job?  All I'm getting is, he wants the job
because he wants the job.  What about the curse? "Oh, either he's
psychologically blocked it out (which is an expalantion without
explaining anything), or maybe it's just been a cooincidence or
something".  What emotional need do you see this fulfilling for him,
that he's applied for 14 years?  Why does Dumbledore NOT give it to
Snape?  He gives it to other people.  Why specifically not Snape?  Why
has JKR plugged this fact about Snape every single book and flagged a
big plot development with it in HBP?  

 >It's true that Snape just being
>irrationally obsessed with the DADA job to the point that he is self-
>destructive about it doesn't tell us much that we didn't already know,
>and doesn't tell Harry much that Harry didn't already know.  So what?
>Life is full of situations where answers don't run past the obvious and
>where people's motivations are very clear, even if they are
>irrational.  

See, this is where I'm like, yeah, that's why people read books and go
to movies.  Because life is boring and it doesn't make sense and it
doesn't really go anywhere.  Why doesn't JKR have the books consist of
entire chapters where people do laundry?  That's life-like!  Maybe the
war with Voldemort will just sort of peter out!  Maybe Hermionie will
drop out of the fight because she suddenly gets obsessed with ponies
instead!  Sorry I sound frustrated, it's just that I feel like I'm in
a story meeting where someone is actually arguing for a option that's
weaker-- less tied in to the plot, less motivated, less informative,
less surprising, less meaningful, and with some big consistency
issues-- BECAUSE it's weaker.  How am I supposed to argue with that? 


-- Sydney, seriously considering using the, "it's more lifelike if it
doesn't make sense and is sort of random" pitch in a meeting, just to
see the looks on people's faces...