First potions lesson/Stand aside girl and the end

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 145809

Irene Mikhlin wrote:
<SNIP>
> He just asked him several questions, which were
> covered in the textbook. Was it so horribly unfair to
> expect Harry to know the answers?

Alla:

Yes, IMO it was, because IMO no homework was given to the first years 
prior to coming to Hogwarts. I would find it incredibly strange that 
especially muggleborns who had no exposure to magic would have been 
asked to do anything prior to listening to the initial instructions 
of the teachers.
Besides, if I was sure that Snape expected Harry to KNOW the answers, 
I may have had a different feeling about this scene. I think that 
Snape asked Harry precisely because he expected Harry NOT KNOW the 
answers and wanted to see him humiliated, IMO.


Irene Michlin:
> "But he lives with Muggles!", you say. So what, so
> does Hermione, yet she've read the book and knows the
> answers.
> "But it's unfair to use Hermione as a yardstick!", you
> say.
> Why? Because she is clever and enthusiastic about her
> studies? That's the very definition of
> Oustanding-level student, then. Oh, wait, that's the
> only kind of a student Snape wants in his classes,
> it's just he can't be selective before Year 6.

Alla:

Not because Harry lives with Muggles, although as I said sure I would 
expected a bit nicer welcome to the new world, but because I think 
that they were not given any homework yet, so there was no way that 
Harry COULD have known the answers, IMO of course.


I think I said it in the past. I have not gone to college in USA ( I 
had attended six month program, but I don't count it as college 
education). I went basically straight to law school, so for all 
intent and purposes this was my first exposure to the american 
educational system.

I did struggle A LOT with language and just with different 
substantive subjects. So I think I could identify with Harry in a 
sense that he faces the new world and new educational system. I have 
not gotten such a vicious "welcome" as Harry gets from Snape from ANY 
law school professor. Honestly, they had been ten times more 
understanding that I was basically in completely unknown world - 
education and everything else. And I take it law school professors 
supposed to be many times tougher that teachers in school, no? I 
would EXPECT law school professors to be tough, since they are 
dealing with adults and future lawyers

And it is not like they went barking on the first lessons on the 
students who were native speakers either.

So, no I think Snape was horrible on that lesson.

As to Hermione - yes, I don't think it is fair to take her as an 
example, because she reads everything. If you could show me that ANY 
other student knew the answer, it would have been a different story 
to me.

Besides, are you SURE that Snape wants students like Hermione in his 
class? It seems to me that he tells her to shut up all the time.

> Jen: 
I figured it was probably common knowledge if she was working 
> at the MOM. We saw Bode on the lift and interacting with others in 
a 
> familiar way, so the DOM employees are not hidden away. Also,  
> Voldemort had spies in the Minstry.

Alla:

I don't know about common knowledge, since at least we heard that 
Love Room is supposed to be secret, no? Or my wires are crossed? But 
I will buy about Voldemort having spies in the Ministry. Thanks.

 
> Jen: 
<snip> So I pictured the momentary worry or slight fear to be about 
his own 
> immortality experiments and perhaps a wonder if Lily knew something 
> he didn't. Maybe even something, which would interfere with his 
> experiments? <snip>

Alla:

Right, it makes sense to me if Voldemort wanted some kind of 
immortality related knowledge from Lily, but I think that after he 
would found that knowledge, he would have killed her later in any 
event. IMO of course

 
> Jen: 
Harry of course would 
> not fall for anything having to do with dark arts or the like, but 
I 
> think he spelled his weakness out: "And if I meet Severus Snape 
> along the way....so much the better for me, so much the worse for 
> him (The White Tomb, p. 607 Bloomsbury) His hatred and need for 
> revenge can be easily manipulated by Voldemort and they counter the 
> love, which protects him from such manipulation. It just looked 
like 
> a perfect set-up to me, hearing about Dumbledore's explanation 
> followed by this intense interaction and increase in hatred for 
> Snape, a crack Voldemort can attempt to use against him. I call it 
> temptation, but perhaps other terms could be used. Or we might just 
> disagree this will happen <g>.

Alla:

I am not sure yet if I disagree with you. :-) Let me ask you for some 
more clarification. You agree that Harry will not fall for 
Voldemort's "Join me Luc" kind of stuff, a la Star Wars, correct? :-)

You are saying that Voldemort will try to manipulate Harry because of 
his hatred of Snape, right? Could you describe in more details how 
that would happen in your opinion?

I am just not sure what Voldemort can do to Harry because Harry hates 
Snape, you know.

Now, as I said I think that Harry will deal with his feelings about 
Snape, but I think it will occur independently without any relation 
to Voldemort and the only connection to Voldemort may happen when 
Snape will die for Harry or something like that.

What can Voldemort do to Harry because Harry hates Snape?

> Amiable Dorsai:
> But isn't that why the scene is so satisfying?  The perception--
ours,
> Harry's, Ron's, and especially Draco's--that there *are* two sets of
> rules: one for Malfoys and another for everyone else?  If he did not
> feel himself above the rules that ordinary mortals must obey, would
> Draco have attacked Harry so publicly?  And isn't Draco's 
comeuppance
> all the more sweet for that?

Alla:

Oh, YES, YES. Just wanted to say it.



Thanks.
 

JMO,

Alla