SHIP Tonks/Lupin, was Re: Let's talk about Lupin - True Love at Last?

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 146186

> Tonks_op:
> And I don't think that Lupin is trying to let her down gently. I 
> think he is just as much in love with her as she is with him. Tonks 
> is not a stupid woman, she would know if a man was in love with her 
> or not.

Christina:

We can sit here and debate Lupin's character for hours, but the only
*canon* that we see of his feelings for Tonks are a "million" refusals
and one incident of holding hands.  And that just doesn't convince me
that he's madly in love with her.  The other relationships in HBP are
clued in advance (as in, before HBP).  Ginny has always had a crush on
Harry.  Ron was jealous of Krum and Hermione made it pretty clear that
she had wished Ron had asked her to the Yule Ball.  Fleur "eyes Bill
with great interest" in GoF.

I also don't think a woman needs to be stupid to make a mistake in
judging whether or not a man is in love with her.  Especially when
we're talking about a quiet and secretive man like Lupin, and
especially when we're talking about a woman as young as Tonks.  One
who, I might add, has a demanding career that required three years of
(what I'm sure must have been) intensive training.  I tend to doubt
that she found very much time to get relationship experience.


> Tonks_op:
> I think there are plenty of clues that the adult members of the 
> Order know that Lupin and Tonks were dating.

Christina:

All of your examples are within HBP.  I mean, obviously Tonks was
pursuing Lupin, we hear her say it at the end, but that doesn't mean
that Lupin had romantic feelings for her.  Because the clues aren't
really for the fact that they're "dating," just for the fact that
Tonks is pursuing Lupin and he's saying no.  It also doesn't mean that
the ship was clued for in advance.  And it also doesn't mean that
they're a good couple, however much Molly might think so.

> Tonks_op:
> Now why would they be ideal for each other? Let me count the ways.
> <snip>
> Let me suggest that being a metamorphmagus might not be the 
> most "normal" thing to be in the block where Tonks grew up either. 
> So they may have some early childhood events in common here. Tonks 
> is one of the few women Lupin could ever be with, because like James 
> and Sirius she can transform with him each month.  

Christina:

I highly, highly doubt that Tonks could be with Lupin each month.  As
others have said, Sirius and James were OK because they were large
enough to restrain Lupin.  Tonks says that she can change her
"appearance at will."  It doesn't seem like she can change her *form*,
the way an Animagus could.

NOW, the one single thing that I *have* heard that makes a bit of
sense is the fact that they both have identity issues relating to
their physical abilities to change (I think Tonks's clumsiness comes
from being a tad uncomfortable in her own skin).  But that could be a
curse as well as a blessing, as Tonks still has free choice over her
transformations (and seems to have a casual and positive attitude
toward them).  I think the two of them bonding over their physical
transformations would be like James or Sirius comparing their ability
to transform to Lupin's.  It absolutely is not the same - one causes
unbelievable pain and a loss of one's mind, the other is something
that is done for fun and amusement - and I think any comparison is
rather flippant and insulting.  That's why I find it hard to believe
that Lupin and Tonks could bond in that way.

A lot of my personal feelings on Lupin/Tonks have to do with age.  I
don't care about the number of years between them (I don't see
anything wrong with a decade or so difference), but I find it
interesting that Lupin and Tonks are two people whose ages are almost
overstressed in the books.  Lupin is in his 30's through the series,
but he's constantly being described as ill, exhausted, tired, and
shabby.  Harry seems to notice more gray in Lupin's hair every time
they meet.  Lupin is portrayed as being somebody that, in looks at
least (and I'd argue in temperament and experience as well), is older
than his years. 

Now think about Tonks.  It isn't just that she's in her early 20's. 
It's that she's *really* in her early twenties.  She wears band shirts
and has pink hair, she's spunky, and she gives off a distinctive
"young" vibe.  She's hip, she's cool, she's feisty.  She and Lupin
might share some political ideals (although I don't think believing in
fairness and justice can be really counted as a foundation for a
relationship), but while he is actually discussing them at the dinner
table in OotP, Tonks is hanging out with the two teenage girls,
entertaining them by making faces.

I was left scratching my head.  When I think about the kind of man
that would want a younger woman, I would think of somebody that's
maybe looking for a little excitement, a little fun, somebody more
interesting and risk-loving than a woman his own age.  I think of
somebody like Sirius, who is described as acting quite young (which
makes sense considering his 12-odd years spent out of commission).  In
fact, if it weren't for the cousin connection, I would think that
Sirius and Tonks would make a much more logical couple than Lupin and
Tonks.

When I think of the kind of woman that would want an older man, I
think of a woman who is maybe a bit fed up with the immature guys her
age, somebody looking to settle down with a mature older guy to...I
don't know, drink tea with and talk about books.  I think of somebody
like, say, Hermione.

I'm not saying that opposites can't attract, because they certainly
can (although research shows that marriages are more successful
between people that are somewhat alike).  I'm also not saying that the
two don't have some wonderful, attractive qualities.  Lupin is a great 
guy.  Tonks is a great lady.  I like both of their characters very
much.  I just can't see them together.  And I can't see what it is
that could sustain their relationship.  I think that Lupin, given the
choice, would favor a quiet, simple life.  I can't help but see Tonks
getting bored after about 10 minutes of that.

And all of that isn't to say that JKR can't go down the Lupin/Tonks
road, because I think she's probably going to.  I'm also not saying
that two people that are have different personalities and different
goals can't fall in love, because they can.  I'm just adding in my
personal reasons for not seeing the two together, as you gave a few of
your reasons for liking the pairing.

Christina