Humanity, Kant, Caricatures, and Draco - Perspective

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 146269

> >>bboyminn:
> Let's not lose perspective here.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Gee, thanks, Steve! <g> Okay, so in the interest of keeping things 
in perspective let me go back to my original statement.  It is odd, 
if not illogical, to argue that using sarcasm against a child is 
child abuse, but bouncing a child on a stone floor is a reasonable 
form of discipline.

Replies were given saying that the above statement is not true 
because these books have characters of different worth.  IOW, some 
characters are more human or realistic than others.  And while I 
think that sort of argument could hold water in a Roald Dahl book, I 
don't think it holds as true in the Potterverse.  JKR does have 
caricitures in her books, from time to time, but I think, for the 
most part, she tries to keep her characters fairly realistic.  
(Especially compared to Dahl.)

So, I would say that the characters are indeed equal -- at least in 
terms of their humanity or realism.  So if sarcasm (or unfair point 
taking, etc.) is considered brutal behavior, so should bouncing a 
child on a stone floor.

Unless it can be shown that Draco is a cartoonish character, that 
he's not as realistic as Harry, not as human as Harry, saying that a 
teacher who is mean to Harry (insults his parents, takes points 
unfairly, etc.) is an abuser, but a teacher who physically assults 
Draco (JKR tells us he was hurt by the treatment) is not an abuser, 
becomes an exercise in doublespeak.  IMO.  Which is why I went 
through some effort to show that Draco is neither a cartoon nor a 
cariciture.

[I want to add that the amount of time spent with a character, while 
increasing our sympathy or empathy, doesn't go towards that 
character's realism.  At least, not how I'm defining it.  When we 
learn Hannah Abbott's parents were killed we don't sympathize to the 
extent we would if it were Hermione, but neither do we say that 
Hannah isn't suffering the same amount of grief Hermione would in 
that sort of situation.]

> >>bboyminn:
> So, from an adult perspective, Moody's action were wrong on every
> front. They were cruel, harsh, and against the rules.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Exactly what I was saying.  So I *have* kept my perspective.

> >>bboyminn:
> However, from a kids perspective, Draco was asking for it. He     
> instigated and provoked the situation, then when he couldn't take 
> even a fraction of what he was dishing out, Draco escalated the    
> situation into an act of cowardly violence. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I agree, Draco was asking for it.  And if Harry and Ron had jumped 
him at this point, or if he'd lost tons of house points from 
Slytherin and earned a detention to boot he'd have only himself to 
blame.  But it was beyond weird for Fake!Moody to get involved in 
the manner he did.  Of course, we learn later that Fake!Moody (who 
loves to attack from behind) was just looking for an excuse.

> >>bboyminn:
> Moody's response was certainly harsh, but sometimes harsh people   
> only understand harsh punishment.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Out of curiosity, how would Fake!Moody even know what sort of person 
Draco is?  I mean, how could he suddenly leap to the conclusion that 
Draco is a harsh boy?  He's been in Azkaban or under house arrest 
for most of Draco's life.  And while Fake!Moody probably knew 
Lucius, Draco is not much like his dad.

> >>bboyminn:
> So while we can feel some sympathy for Draco, let's not go so far 
> as to paint Draco as an innocent victim of Harry or a harsh no    
> nonsense teacher.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Who's painted Draco as an innocent victim?  If you read my post I 
make a point of saying that Draco *isn't* an innocent victim here.  
Though let's not go to the other extreme and paint a sadistic, 
murderous Death Eater as a "no nonsense teacher" either.  We do want 
to keep some sort of perspective after all.

> >>bboyminn:
> And from either perspective, Draco really doesn't have anyone to   
> blame but himself. If he had obeyed the rules and behaved himself, 
> he wouldn't have suffered any consequences.

Betsy Hp:
Probably *exactly* what Snape says about Harry.  Though I'd also 
point out that if a sadistic, murderous Death Eater is out for a 
little vengence, good behavior probably won't save you.  It didn't 
help Neville.

Betsy Hp