CHAPDISC: HBP8, Snape Victorious

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 146546

Sherry:
> 1.  This is the first mention of nonverbal spells in the book, 
> though it becomes important later as we know.  Did it catch you at 
> all at this point, or did you just pass over it as you wondered how 
> he'd get out of this pickle?

SSSusan:
I didn't catch its importance, in terms of the emphasis that would be 
coming on NVS in this book, no.  I don't think it was 'til after I 
started the book through for the second time that I really noticed 
how very much NVS were present (which was especially interesting for 
those who've theorized that Snape didn't actually cast an AK but 
merely verbalized it while he *focused* on some other spell non-
verbally).


Sherry:
> 2.  Harry despises himself for wishing there would be the sound of 
> panic, people wondering what had happened to him.  He has always 
> hated his celebrity, but in this situation, it might have helped.  
> Later in the chapter, when he is at the Gryffindor table and 
> feeling embarrassed, he hopes the students will just assume he was 
> off doing something heroic.  How do you feel about his thoughts in 
> this situation?  Does it seem inconsistent, practical, or natural 
> to you?

SSSusan:
Seems perfectly natural to me.  One, the notion of celebrity *has* to 
be growing on him, in the sense of his AWARENESS of it and its being 
a part of who he is, by this time.  I do think that, down deep, he 
still doesn't LIKE it much, but he's not stupid -- he's aware in the 
train situation of its potential USEFULNESS.  That seems sensible to 
me -- letting his mind wander to "Well, for ONCE it would be nice 
if...."  But I think his despising the thought does speak to his 
basic comfort level & preference still being for anonymity.


Sherry:
> 3.  Here we see Tonks jump off a moving train.  All through the 
> last book, OOTP, we are shown how clumsy Tonks is.  ...But here
> we see her casually leaping off a moving train.  What did you think 
> of this? We learn later that Tonks has lost her metamorphmagus 
> ability.  Do you think her ability to change her appearance could 
> be part of why she is clumsy? Is it possible that she isn't very 
> well coordinated because of her metamorphing?  Will she be clumsy 
> again now that she has her ability back at the end of HBP?  Or is 
> there something more sinister going on here?  Is this really 
> Tonks?  

SSSusan:
These are fascinating questions.  I'd never thought about the 
possibility that Tonks losing her metamorphmagus ability might *make* 
her less clumsy and awkward.  But -- okay, confession time -- as I 
read, I did wonder whether this was indeed Tonks.  In fact, this lack 
of clumsiness and her gloominess and her changed patronus all made me 
think... even though I was *never* in SAD DENIAL... that Tonks was 
somehow actually Sirius!  (Okay, throw rotten tomatoes at me, I can 
take it -- it was just a thought that flitted into my mind as I read 
this. :-)) 

 
Sherry:
> 5.  Snape tells Tonks that Harry is "quite--ah--safe in my hands."  
> Is there any implication in his words here, or is it just done for 
> emphasis, to add some sharpness, for Harry's benefit?  Or for 
> Tonks?  Just curious about how this was written.  Any thoughts?

SSSusan:
It *is* a curiously written phrase... almost as if Snape had to stop 
himself from saying something else?  Or was searching for an 
appropriate word to use?  It does sound a little ominous, frankly.  
I've *no* idea what its signifance is.


Sherry:
> 6. Why do you think Snape made these comments about [Tonks'] 
> patronus?  He hasn't seemed to have any particular feelings one way 
> or the other about Tonks previously; in fact, did we ever see them 
> interact before?  Why does he say that her patronus is weak?  

SSSusan:
Oh, I just took this as typical Snape-is-a-prick behavior, actually.  
Truthfully, though, since *I* first thought the patronus was a dog 
(Sirius), not a wolf (Lupin), on the first read-through I figured it 
was Snape not being able to resist another dig at Sirius.  

Now that we know it was a wolf, representing Lupin, and that Snape 
called it weak while presumably recognizing it correctly as a wolf 
*is* a curiosity.


Sherry: 
> 7. <snip> Whatever you think of that belief, why do you think
> Harry would so easily believe that Sirius would only rush off
> because he was taunted?  Does Harry have difficulty believing that 
> Sirius could have rushed to his rescue out of love for him and a 
> desire to save him, as he could not save James and Lily?  Does 
> Harry have a problem believing that people could love him enough to 
> risk their lives?

SSSusan:
I think it's two things.  One, Harry hates Snape and *wants* -- at 
least on one level -- to continue blaming him for Sirius' death.  
Two, I think it's an *awful* thought for Harry to have to face that 
someone may have died because he loved him.  Who wants THAT guilt??  
The kid probably feels like ANYbody who cares about him or gets too 
near him gets hurt.  It's probably a pretty natural defense mechanism 
to displace the blame in order to keep from having to face love of 
him (Harry) as the reason for Sirius' death.


Sherry:
> 8.  Ok, I've been dying to ask this question for months.  It's come 
> up once or twice before with no response.  Did Snape see that 
> Harry's face was covered in blood?  ...If he did see it, why didn't 
> he comment or why didn't he realize that Harry had not been late on
> purpose... Why didn't he ask Harry how his face got bloodied?  

SSSusan:
I had not noticed this, but you're right.  How could Snape NOT have 
seen the blood and mess?  I can see Snape having said something 
*obnoxious* about it, which assumed Harry had been doing something 
against the rules or stupid, but I can't understand why NO comment 
was made.  And if he did notice, why didn't he take care of him or 
send him to Madam Pomfrey?  More curious Snape behavior.


Sherry: 
> 10.  Is there any significance to the fact that Trelawney is at the 
> start of term feast?  

SSSusan:
Well, we do know that she's now having to *share* her Divination 
position with Firenze and that she's none too happy about it.  
Perhaps she's trying to be more of a *presence* amongst the staff and 
students, in order to look like a part of the team? or to keep an eye 
on Firenze?


Sherry:
> 11.  Later, as Harry tells Ron the story of what happened on the 
> train, he believes Ron shows his friendship by not laughing.
> Does this show anything about Ron's character, or is this just 
> normal for any kid his age?

SSSusan:
Well, I think it's typical Ron behavior, yes, but I also think 
Harry's thinking shows that HE might've also been tempted to laugh if 
the tables had been turned and it was Ron who'd had his nose stomped 
on.


Sherry: 
> 12.  Throughout the book, Harry asks about Dumbledore's hand, and 
> he is repeatedly told that he'll learn what happened later.  He 
> never does.  Will the exact details of what happened to the hand be 
> important later, either in what Harry has to do or in understanding 
> what happened on the tower?

SSSusan:
You know, I'm re-reading HBP again right now, and last night I got to 
the chapter where Harry finally learns about DD's theory of the 7 
soul parts/6 horcruxes.  In the discussion between Harry & DD, DD 
talks about how they each have already destroyed one horcrux, and 
when Harry seems surprised by this, DD holds up his hand and tells 
him that the ring had been a horcrux. 

As I read this, I wondered if this isn't one of those situations 
where we FANS want more of an explanation and where JKR thinks we've 
already been answered.  No, we didn't get the *specifics* of the 
curse which was on the ring nor how/why it almost killed DD, but we 
did learn that the hand was damaged while destroying a horcrux -- and 
wasn't that WHY DD had avoided answering Harry before now -- because 
Harry didn't yet know about the horcruxes?

I won't be surprised if this is all we ever get on the blackened hand.


Sherry:
> 13.  How did you react when you read Dumbledore's announcement of 
> Slughorn as potions master?  Were you shocked?  

SSSusan:
Yep, I was shocked.  I fell for it the same way Harry did.


Sherry:
> 14. Why indeed did Dumbledore give or not give Snape the job?  Has 
> Snape really wanted it all these years?  Did you think about the 
> DADA curse when you heard that Snape had the position?  Was Harry
> correct in detecting the look of triumph on Snape's face?  He hates 
> him so much, that every expression must be well known to him, yet 
> his hatred may not make him a very reliable judge of such things.  

SSSusan:
I think DD never gave the job to Snape before now because he felt 
Snape was too important to LOSE... and, knowing about the jinx, he 
knew whenever/if ever he gave the job to Snape, he *would* lose him 
somehow or other.

As for Snape, he may have wanted the job, he may not have.  I do 
believe he has a real affinity for potions.  OTOH, I also believe 
that Snape has been *willing* to take the DADA position at any time.  
I believe he knew about the curse and was willing to take on the risk 
whenever DD felt it was time.  

I don't think DD *wanted* Snape to take the job this year, either, 
but I think he felt there was no choice -- either that he needed 
Slughorn on staff and so had to move Snape or felt that they were 
running out of time and options and so now was the time to take Snape 
up on his offer.  All speculation, of course.


Sherry: 
> 15.  How do you feel about Harry's savage comment that at least it 
> means Snape will be gone by the end of the year?  Did Harry's 
> comment about keeping his fingers crossed for another death disturb 
> you? 

SSSusan:
Nah, it didn't really disturb me.  Haven't we all said stuff like 
this that we didn't REALLY mean?  I think he's just spouting off.  Of 
course, at the end of the book, when he's chasing after Snape, THEN 
he really meant it!  But I'm not sure he truly did at this point.

Nice job, Sherry! :-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan