Remus, Sirius and Harry's desires for revenge WAS: Re: Spies, Lies and self-ful

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 146758

> > Pippin, 
> > regarding Lupin's and Sirius's plan to kill Peter in the 
> > Shrieking Shack:
> > Lupin was about to betray everything his closest friends  
> > believed in, everything for which  they had fought, suffered and 
> > died. It's a poor way to honor their sacrifice. 

<snipping mine and Debbie's comments about Sirius and Harry acting 
similarly to Lupin>

> Alla:
> 
> Right, new day started here, so I can post this comment. :-)
> I just wanted to interject briefly, that I am not concerned with 
> Sirius desire for revenge, Lupin's desire for revenge or Harry's 
> desire for revenge.
> 
> In fact, I would find it VERY strange if they reacted ANY 
> differently to the abov described situations.

Christina:

Well, yeah, that's essentially what I was saying.  If we're going to 
make a big deal out of Lupin's desire for revenge (and assumed 
willingness to follow through with it), we'd better also take issue 
with the same qualities in Harry.  We obviously don't, so it 
shouldn't be an issue at all.

> Alla:
> ...I actually never considered that Remus might be just in as much 
> shock as Sirius was...But the way Remus talks to Sirius also shows 
> IMO person in shock and maybe he was never able to properly deal 
> with what happened with Potters either. 

Christina:

Remus is a bit emotionally repressed to begin with, and the subject 
of the Potters' death still affects him, if his odd reactions to 
Harry bringing up the subject are any indication.  I do think that 
he has had social contact since the Potters died.  Unless the 
labelled professor's case was some kind of joke gift from the other 
Marauders (which would actually be sort of cute), he's had a job or 
two.  However, I agree that he probably hasn't come to terms with or 
spoken much about what happened, for a few reasons.  The first is 
that I think Remus spent a lot of time in the Muggle world after 
that Halloween.  The second is that he's the type to keep his 
emotions on the inside in the first place.  Third, the Potters' 
death is an event that is connected to emotions of happiness for 
most people (it ended Voldemort's reign of terror), so it would be 
hard for him to find people that could really understand what he was 
going through.

Now, while it has been a long time since the Potters died, Remus is 
only finding out their true killer *now*.  That must have been 
difficult, considering the fact that Remus must have mourned Peter 
as a hero for many years.  So the element of surprise is surely a 
factor in Remus's actions, the same way they are in Harry's.  Even 
Sirius, who has known about Peter's betrayal for years (and has 
probably relived memories of it in Azkaban), is shaking with emotion 
when the time comes to kill Peter.  It's a high-stress situation.

> Alla:
> And of course I am not concerned at all with Harry's desire for 
> revenge. All of his running out and trying to cast Unforgivables 
> happens right AFTER he witnessed murders of the two adults dearest 
> to him....<snip> Harry does NOT have a benefit of time to work 
> through his feelings yet, when he goes after the killers.

Christina:

Well, not exactly.  I mean, he finds out that Sirius supposedly 
betrayed his parents during the wintertime and sees the man at the 
end of the schoolyear.  That's quite a bit of time to sit with the 
information.  If I came face-to-face with a crazed mass murderer who 
is bigger and stronger than I, I don't care who he killed, my first 
instinct would be to RUN!  So there's an example of Harry acting 
after time has passed, although, like you said, I don't find it that 
big of an issue.  I don't think Harry is sadistic or cruel (that's 
why the Crucio's don't work), but he can be a tad impetuous, and 
that's all that I fault him for in these instances.  If he wants to 
defeat Voldemort, he needs to reign in his anger and learn to reason 
under pressure with a clear head.

> Alla:
> What Remus and Sirius wanted to do of course should not 
> have happened,  and it did not, but the desire for revenge was IMO 
> perfectly understandable and does not make any of them evil. 
> Human - yes. Evil - I doubt it very much.

Christina:

Exactly.  Not to mention the fact that supposed "revenge" can be 
seen as justice, and probably is seen that way by a few of the 
characters we're talking about.  Peter kills (essentially), so Peter 
is killed.  Bellatrix kills, so Bellatrix is killed.  It's still 
wrong for Harry & Co. to take matters into their own hands, but in a 
world where the government is corrupt and useless, I don't find it 
particularly shocking that they want to.

Christina