The Evil of Voldemort; Lily's choice

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 146765

Brothergib wrote:
> My point was that there may be the possibility that a wizard who 
> wants to seperate a soul piece needs to perform some form of magic 
> before the murder that allows this to happen. Therefore, Voldemort 
> may have prepared to split his soul on entering Harry's bedroom, and 
> killing Lily caused his soul to split again.
> 
> To then use Harry's death as a Horcrux, he would have to split his 
> soul again. I think there must be a limit to how many times you can 
> split your soul, so why not seven!
> 
> And at that point, what was more important to Voldemort (1) to
create a seven piece soul or (2) to use Harry's death to create a
Horcrux. I like the thought that Voldemort's greed in making Horcruxes
might have precipitated the events at Godric's Hollow!

Carol responds:
We're told that two things are required to create a Horcrux--a soul
split by murder and a spell. There's no indication that the murder has
to be performed with the creation of a Horcrux in mind. As far as I
can tell, Tom Riddle murdered his father and grandparents for revenge.
He didn't know at that time about the ring, which he later made into a
Horcrux. He found Morfin Gaunt and pinned the murder on him (planted
the memory of commiting it in Morfin's mind) after commiting the
murder. At that time he also took the ring, which he still didn't know
how to make a Horcrux. (He had also already planted a memory of
himself in the diary with the intention of using it to control the
basilisk. It wasn't a Horcrux yet, either.)

I think that as long as the soul has been split by murder, and "loose"
soul piece can be used to create the Horcrux. DD speculates that LV
preferred to use significant murders, but how LV could tell the soul
piece created by his father's death from the two created at the same
time by his grandparents' deaths, I can't guess. IMO, he couldn't.

Which brings up another point. Although LV would only need six murders
to create six Horcruxes (not seven--the seventh soul piece, which BTW
is still fragmented or torn, remains in his body), he has committed
more than seven murders by the time of Godric's Hollow.

I count Moaning Myrtle's death as a murder: the basilisk is only his
instrument, just as the wand is his instrument for the other murders.
Tom had every intention of using the basilisk to kill Muggleborns;
that's why he called it out of the Chamber. He may even have followed
Myrtle to the girls' restroom with that purpose in mind. (I think he
used her murder, significant because it was his first, to convert the
diary into a Horcrux. It was unprotected by curses, however, because
it had to be interactive.)

Then we have the three Riddle murders, one of which must have been
used for the ring Horcrux. He would still have two usable soul pieces
at that point. Then he killed Hepzibah Smith, his fifth murder, and
created either the cup or the locket Horcrux from it. I'm guessing
that it was the cup since it was connected with her and Hufflepuff. He
could then have used, say, his grandfather's murder to create the
locket Horcrux. (There's a family connection, even though it's the
wrong side of the family.) He still had one soul piece left over,
which we can speculate that he used for the unknown Ravenclaw Horcrux.

We know that the murders didn't stop there. Voldemort personally
killed one the original Order members (Dorcas Meadows, IIRC). Why did
he kill her, and was she sufficiently important to use to create a
Horcrux? We don't know, but his soul was split again either way. At
that point if not sooner (are the Inferi the corpses of people he
killed personally?), he had killed enough people to create all six
Horcruxes, even if he hadn't used all the murders.

Then Voldemort killed James Potter, not, IMO, to use his murder to
create a Horcrux, but because he put up a fight and LV wanted to kill
Potter's baby son. Then he killed Lily because she wouldn't stand
aside. That makes eight people killed personally, more than he needs
for Horcruxes even if he didn't already have six when he went to
Godric's Hollow, *possibly* intending to use Harry's murder (not
James's or Lily's) to create a last Horcrux.

After his return, even before he regains his body, he's still killing
people: Bertha Jorkins and Frank Bryce, neither of them important
enough to use for a Horcrux. (If he creates his last Horcrux, Nagini,
at his point, it would be using James's or Lily's murder--assuming
that he can distinguish among the soul pieces.) That's eight murders,
not counting the Inferi (or Cedric, killed with LV's wand and on his
orders but not by his hand). And now there's Madam Bones, again killed
by Voldemort himself.

So the soul piece remaining in Voldemort is still fragmented, in at
least four pieces (three for each "spare" murder plus what's left of
the original soul).

I'm guessing that the soul is infinite and can be fragmented an
infinite number of times. It's not like a pie that can be sliced in
haf, then quarters, then eighths, then sixteenths, with the pieces
becoming smaller each time. (Nor do I think, as some people have
suggested, that they become weaker or more wicked each time; a soul
fragment is a soul fragment, and its sole purpose (no pun intended) is
to keep Voldemort tied to earthly life, to keep the soul bit(s) in his
body from passing beyond the Veil.)

To return to your post, I think that the events at Godric's Hollow
were precipitated, not by greed for another Horcrux (he considered
himself sufficiently protected or he would never have gone there) but
by the desire to thwart the Prophecy. If he destroyed the only One who
could vanquish him, nothing else would matter, not even the number of
Horcruxes he had made and hidden. Nothing and no one could destroy
him. He miscalculated, of course, but not because of a desire to
create another Horcrux.

I also see no evidence that magic is required before a murder to
create a Horcrux. You commit the murder, which splits your soul. Then
you remove the soul fragment and encase it in an object (or magical
creature like Nagini). Possibly a soul bit can be lifted out like a
thought from Dumbledore's or Snape's head, but I imagine the process
is more intricate, requiring a spell. Whether the same spell also
enables you to encase the soul bit in a container, I don't know. IMO,
it probably requires an elaborate ritual like the one required to
resurrect Voldie's body, though perhaps without a potion. At any rate,
the magic seems to occur *after* the murder, not before. (How could
Voldie have cast a spell on the cup or the locket before killing
Hepzibah Smith if he had to kill her to get them?)

Carol, who (incidentally) believes that the wand flick during LV's
DADA interview cursed the DADA position and had nothing to do with
creating a Horcrux (except frustration at being unable to acquire
suitable objects as he might have done as a teacher at Hogwarts)