Do any list members think Dumbledore might have asked Snape to kill him?

[quick_silver71]

No: HPFGUIDX 147011

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:
<snip>
> bboyminn:
> 
> Despite how many times this has been discussed, I doubt that it can
> every be resolved until we have the last book. Even then, it may 
not
> be completely resolved.
> 
> Personally, I resist all speculation that Dumbledore and Snape sat
> down and conspired for Snape to kill Dumbledore. That is too far
> fetched and most unlikely. However, I don't have a problem with
> Dumbledore impressing on Snape that Harry's life was of vital
> important, and that Harry's life was more valuable than even his 
own
> (Dumbledore's that is).
> 
<snip>
> Sorry, but that is far too unlikely a plan for me or Snape to ever
> swallow, or for Dumbledore to ever conceive. 
> 
> However, in that final moment at the top of the tower, I can see
> Dumbledore saying "...Severus ...please ...you understand the
> situation. You know there is only one 'best' way out. Do what you 
know
> you must do to salvage this situation and protect the innocent
> (meaning Harry and Draco). Do what you know will produce the best
> possible outcome in the struggle against Voldemort." 
> 
> I assume there was a degree of Legilimency involved, but I think 
the
> bulk of it stems from Dumbledore's earlier emphasis that Harry's 
well
> being must be protected AT ALL COSTS, and the cost in that terrible
> moment was Dumbledore's life.
> 
> Beside, between the Cave Potion and the Dead Hand Curse, I think
> Dumbledore was fading fast. I think his time on this earth was 
already
> limited, so his death didn't represent the loss of a full rich life
> ahead. It represented the loss of the life of a person who had 
already
> lived a long, full, rich life that was greatly rewarding and very
> satisfying. Dumbledore knew he had lived his life and done his 
share
> to make a better world, and while he did not welcome death, he also
> did not fear it. 
<snip> 
> Further, in his own nasty way, Snape protected Harry on the way 
out.
> He only used defensive curses against Harry, and he stopped the 
other
> DE's from attacking Harry. Yes, Dumbledore is dead, BUT ONLY
> Dumbledore is dead. It could have been much worse if Dumbledore had
> chosen to fight, or had forced Snape to turn against the DE's in 
that
> moment. I think regardless of Snape's choice, Dumbledore was 
certain
> to die.
> 
<snip> 

Good points and I mostly agree with them. However doesn't the 
scenario that you present really eliminate the possibility of 
Dumbledore and Snape having any long term goals with regards to 
Dumbledore's sacrifice? 

The reason that I say this is because the idea of Dumbledore having 
some sort of long range plan has never really seemed possible to me 
based on: the unpredictably nature of the Tower sequence and events 
leading up to it, the fact that Voldemort would be working in ways 
to either counter the plan or outside of the plan, and the fact that 
the longer Dumbledore is dead the less accurate his ability to 
influence events directly and indirectly will become. So I've has 
trouble seeing how Dumbledore could have possibly thought of every 
move that Voldemort could make. 

The other thing that's bothered me is the fact that Snape shouts out 
dueling tips to Harry as he and Harry. The more that I think about 
that scene the more
uncontrolled
it seems. I don't want to say that 
Snape was panicking but playing it by ear maybe? I wonder if maybe 
Snape was so emotional at the end of HBP because he really doesn't 
know what to do next? 

Now I'm going to disagree with you about the killing of Dumbledore 
being about saving Harry
the Tower scene doesn't really seem to be 
about Harry IMO. Dumbledore had plenty of time on the Tower to send 
Harry to either safety (they still had brooms) or to send Harry 
through the school to wait for DE's at the bottom of the Tower (in 
hindsight that makes the most tactical sense IMO
with Harry waiting 
at the bottom it's possible not a single DE except maybe Snape would 
have escaped). Instead Dumbledore keeps Harry on the Tower under the 
cloak to witness what occurs with Draco, the DE's, and Snape. Not so 
much for Harry's safety but so that Harry can see what happens 
because Harry needs to know. Harry needs to know because of who 
Harry is and what Harry must do. The scene on the Tower, IMO, 
sometimes comes across as Dumbledore's last lesson to pass on to 
Harry, the last thing that Dumbledore is going to teach to Harry. 
Much like Snape's retreat across Hogwart's and his shouting 
instructions to Harry is likely going to be Snape's last lesson for 
Harry
the last time Snape is the master and Harry the student. 

Quick_Silver