Draco and Harry (was:The GoF Train Scene - and beyond...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 147057

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > I mean, yes Draco is prejudiced (as he's been raised to be,     
> > never exposed to another way of thinking), but again, Harry's    
> > conversation with Ron is not all that different from Draco's    
> > conversation with Harry.

> >>Gerry:
> So? Harry is curious. He is interested about his fascinating new
> world. He has gotten snippets from the conversation with Draco and 
> now tries to find out more from a source he likes. Harry wants to 
> know about his world. That to me is very different about a        
> conversation that is drenched with prejudice like Draco has. 

Betsy Hp:
I guess I'm not seeing Draco's conversation as "drenched with 
prejudice".  And I can see that if Harry had asked Draco the 
questions he'd asked Ron, Draco would have responded in a friendly 
manner.  I'm not saying there wasn't any prejudice expressed by 
Draco.  He's far more interested in the "right sort" than Ron. But 
that's not what turns Harry off.  Draco bothers him because Draco 
assumes a certain level of knowledge on Harry's part (Quidditch, 
school houses, etc.) and Harry is afraid of looking stupid.  

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But Draco doesn't insult Lily on purpose.  That's where the 
> > misspeaking comes in, I think.  
> > <snip>

> >>Gerry: 
> Yes he does. He gives his opinion about the 'other kind,' and he   
> does so quite openly under the mistaken assumption he is talking   
> to another pureblood.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
*Exactly*.  Draco assumes a certain level of knowledge.  He doesn't 
*deliberately* set out to insult Harry's mother.  (Heck, I don't 
think Harry even realizes his mother has been insulted.)  So Draco 
hasn't set out to be hostile to this new boy he's just met.  Draco 
is trying to be friendly, but he puts his foot in it.  *IF* Draco 
had known that this was Harry Potter he was speaking to, I'm sure he 
wouldn't have set out to insult Harry's mom.  He'd have asked 
different sorts of questions.

> >>Gerry:
> That Draco does not know that the boy's mum is the 'wrong kind'   
> does not really matter to me.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Well, no it wouldn't matter to the reader would it.  I mean, JKR 
also uses Draco to introduce a fly in the WW ointment here, doesn't 
she.  So the fact that there are a "right sort" and "wrong sort" in 
the WW is the main point the reader can take from this conversation.

However, there is a certain significance, at least IMO, in the fact 
that Draco doesn't *knowingly* insult Harry or his mother.  After 
all, JKR could have easily had Draco say something like "You're 
Harry Potter?  Your mother shouldn't have been allowed at Hogwarts," 
and still gotten her point across.  That she doesn't do it that way 
suggests there's more going on here, I think.

> >>Gerry
> I'm sorry but I could not disagree more. Yes, Draco makes Harry
> insecure. But that is not why he does not like him. It is the way
> Draco talks, the way he complains about not being allowed a racing
> broom, that all makes it clear this is one spoiled little brat. 

Betsy Hp:
And the fascinating thing is, Draco isn't a spoiled brat.  He's not 
anywhere *near* as spoiled as Dudley.  Draco *doesn't* get his 
broom, and his father *doesn't* think he walks on water.  (Narcissa 
is a bit more doting, but I don't think she's near the level of 
Petunia either.)

But that's what I meant by confidence.  I've a sister who's highly 
confident and would, in Draco's situation, have certainly made vocal 
plans for "bullying" for a broom.  She wouldn't have got one, but 
she'd have tried and she'd have been highly expectent of success 
right up to the moment of failure.  She was not (none of us were) 
spoiled by any means.  But Harry, who's coming from a *very* 
dysfunctional background, misjudges the family dynamics.

So, he's put off by the fact that Draco is confident of his parents' 
love and he's put off by the fact that Draco knows more about the WW 
than he does.  (Hence his relief about being able to name Hagrid.)  
The old misunderstanding cliche rears its hoary head <g>.  The 
prejudice *is* there.  I don't want to overlook it, and I think it's 
important that it get introduced.  But the *way* JKR introduced it 
suggested (to me anyway) that there was more to Draco than "Dudley: 
the wizard version".

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > Draco and Dudley have very little in common.

> >>Gerry:
> Actually, they have a lot in common. Both are bullies utterly      
> spoiled by doting parents. Both want power, and both like to pick 
> on people they consider inferiour.

Betsy Hp:
Well, Draco is a bit of a verbal bully.  Which is *so* not Dudley.  
At all.  Draco's parents love him but he's certainly not spoiled 
(see above).  Again, so, so, so not Dudley.  Erm... they are both 
blond, and um... male.  Harry dislikes both of them, though he can 
squash Dudley like a bug now, as he realizes.  Draco's a bit more of 
a challenge.  So I'm not sure that really counts as something in 
common.

So that's two things in common: blond and male, and ooh! they're 
around the same age.  So that's three!

Power: Dudley wants it, but Draco kind of has it already.  I mean, 
Draco's a prefect, that's pretty much it for a schoolboy.  Draco is 
quite interested in glory (though that may have spoiled on him by 
the end of HBP) but I've not seen any signs of similar desires in 
Dudley.  (Vernon seems more proud of his boxing achievments than 
Dudley.)

Picking on inferiors:  Dudley does love to take down the very tiny.  
(Fourteen beating on eleven is pretty pathetic, IMO.)  Draco likes 
to take down his rivals, whom he automatically classifies 
as "inferior".  (Of course Hermione tells Harry and Ron that Draco 
is "not worth it" so there are similar classifications going on with 
the good guys too.  Bit of human nature there, I think.)  But I 
don't recall Draco specifically culling out the weak to terrorize.  
Neville comes the closest, but he's a peer in age and station.  And 
Draco took on Neville one on one, IIRC.  Draco was certainly mean to 
Neville, but he didn't take the same course of action Dudley would 
have.

Betsy Hp