How to make Remus look evil , when he is not /Draco and Harry

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 147100


>> Pippin:
> Upset?! I daresay he was upset. And that's an excuse for murder, is
> it? Funny, you don't seem to be so lenient where Snape is 
concerned.
> Wasn't his world being turned upside down too? 

Alla:

No, Pippin, it is not an excuse for murder, but IMO it sure is an 
excuse for attempt to avenge his dead friends and one alive, who 
suffered unjustly for twelve years, because the traitor framed him. 
IMO of course.

And I am not sure what are you talking about "Snape's world being 
turned upside down"? Are you talking about Tower events or Shrieking 
Shack? Because if you are talking about Tower events, then I think 
that IF Snape's world was indeed being turned upside down, Snape is 
the one who did the "turning upside down" part and have to pay the 
consequences. Unless you are saying of course that Snape for some 
reason had a burning need to exercise revenge on Dumbledore.
I may be more lenient on poor Severus then, but those revenge 
reasons are better be good :-). Oh, I know one - Albus saved him 
from Azkaban, while Snape wanted to spend time there in the same 
cell where Sirius was. :-) Never mind, slasher in me talking. :)

Peter is the one (in my book of course) who shook Remus' world that 
night and I definitely understand the desire of revenge. It is a 
GOOD thing that Harry stopped Remus and Sirius that night, of 
course. But even Harry, who I firmly believe has a kind soul, does 
not stop them to show leniency to Peter, he is bringing Peter to 
Hogwarts in hope that he would be given Dementor Kiss, so I submit 
that Harry does not have much pity for Peter either, just the desire 
for justice to be served without Remus and Sirius becoming 
murderers. All IMO of course.

Pippin;
<SNIP> 
>And that reminds me, don't you think it's strange that
> Snape, who never misses a chance to gloat, didn't gloat over 
> Dumbledore? If he was really filled with hatred and revulsion, 
> wouldn't he have made a speech about it? Gloated a little? 
> Basked in the glory? Can you imagine Snape missing a chance
> to do that? What could have come over him? ;-)

Alla:

No, Pippin, I don't find it strange at all, if what I believe is 
true - namely that  the underlying reason for Snape killing was 
saving his own life ( I don't know what he is planning to do with 
it - to serve bad or good guys), then Snape did not have TIME to 
gloat. He wanted to leave Hogwarts and fast, before Order may 
capture him or kill him. So, nope, I think it is very believable.


 
> Pippin:
> His first act was to stand there arguing with it, which Dumbledore 
tells
> us never works. He doesn't get rid of it until after Harry passes 
out. Not
> very nice. And what was it doing there anyway? Who ordered it to 
> invade the train?

Alla:

Heeee, I think I know your answer to that question. :-) I will pass 
for now.


> > >>Alla:
> > I don't understand what you are trying to say. What 
difference    
> > does it make that Draco does not "knowingly" insults Harry or 
his 
> > mother?
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> It's the difference between a character purposefully being an 
> antagonist and a character tripping into the role through 
> misunderstanding and misspeaking.  The first is pretty straight up 
> and down, but the second leaves all sorts of interesting wiggle 
> room.  It's the space JKR left herself by going with the second 
> option that I find so significant. 

Alla:

OK, I  am sorry, but I need more clarification, if you don't mind. I 
am guessing we will disagree anyways, but I have no idea what are 
you talking about.

What space JKR left for herself? She portrays Draco as prejudiced 
against ALL muggleborns. What wiggle room she gave herself by 
portraying Draco that way?  I think that if she portrays him as 
prejudiced against ONE person, Lily Evans, wouldn't THAT mean that 
she left wiggle room for herself - as in she could explain the 
specific reasons why Draco was prejudiced against Lily , maybe that 
could be indeed misunderstanding between Harry and Draco and then it 
could be clarified between them.

Right now it is exceptionally clear ( well to me anyway) that Draco 
is THAT kind of person, the one who thinks that Mugglebornes are 
the "wrong kind". 

 
> > >>Alla:
> > If you do argue that, doesn't it make Draco worse person since 
he 
> > is prejudiced against ALL Muggleborns not just Lily Evans?
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> No.  Just a more ignorant one.  And ignorance can be easily 
fixed.  

Alla:

But you were saying above that JKR left a wiggle room for herself 
because Draco specifically does not insult Lily. Here you seem to 
agree that it makes Draco MORE ignorant person. So, let me ask you 
again, why do you think it is better that Draco insults all 
Muggleborns than if he would specifically insults Lily?

Betsy Hp:
> That's part of the reason why it was necessary for Harry to *not* 
> befriend Draco too early on in the series, I think.  Because 
through 
> his association with Harry, Draco would have had his ignorant 
> beliefs challenged.  And HBP wouldn't have been nearly as 
> interesting.

Alla:

But that is why Harry did not want association with Draco, no? 
BECAUSE of his beliefs? 
 
> Betsy Hp:
> I'm just hoping Harry comes to his senses and realizes what a 
swell 
> person Draco *could be*.  <SNIP>

Alla:

What are you basing your assumption on that Draco could be a "swell 
person"? Because even though I adored Amiable Dorsai's quote 
collections, I really did not see a SINGLE one, if we were to look 
at things seriously of course, which showed to me how "swell" Draco 
could be in the future. IMO of course.



Betsy Hp:
> Something I've noticed though, Draco is fairly one note with his 
> verbal attacks.  His "Weasley is our King" song was a moment of 
> genius on his part I think, but his constant harping on Hermione 
> being muggleborn looses its zest after, well, the first time 
> really.  I mean, can't he think of a different angle?  It 
certainly 
> doesn't do much to Hermione. <SNIP>

Alla:

So what if he is fairly one note with his attacks? His one note ( 
which is not really one note, but Ok, he is repetitive sometimes) 
is  IMO of the worst kind, the ones which can lead to genocide of 
Muggleborns.

As I said in the past - my RL metaphor for Draco's prejudice is anti-
Semitism ( and I know it is different for everybody), from my 
experience people who spitted the what I see as equivalent 
for "Mudblood" in the books did not just say it because they thought 
that they are Okay with just saying things about Jews. They wanted 
Jews to be shined from good education, good jobs, etc, etc and of 
course they wanted Jews just leave  the country . I don't see 
Draco's attacks as blabbering of the little boy, I see it as his 
ideological program, sort of where he stands on that issue and I 
find it the most horrible verbal attacks in the books - NOT "Weasley 
the king" or 'Potter stinks", but his "Mudblood" and they will be 
killed ( Mudbloods, I mean)

Alla