VA/H=Mx13+RP? (was: Was the eavesdropper unimportant to Harry?)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 147128

Magpie:
> I mean, from his pov think of it this way.  He's on Voldemort's
> side.  His goal is to support him.  (Sometimes, as weird as it
> sounds,people do have trouble not thinking that villains 
> underneath it all really see everything the same way the heroes do
> and so view their own actions the same way as the heroes do.)  So 
> think of if Snape was working for DD and he heard a prophecy that
> said that someone who would destroy him could be found in such and
> such a place.  He'd naturally pass that information on as a 
> supporter of DD. 

Jen: There's a small problem with the comparison because Snape is 
working toward an evil end. The actions are the same, the ends are 
not. Culpability-wise, I mean. 

> Carol responds:
> If I understand correctly what you're saying, I agree with you. The
> Prophecy incident occurred some months before Harry was born. Snape
> was a twenty-year-old DE who happened to overhear a Prophecy
> concerning apparent danger to his master. 

Jen: My initial reaction to Snape-the-eavesdropper was he would know 
exactly what it meant and was a scumbag for turning over a baby to 
Voldemort. He's a smart guy and should know how prophecies work and 
what kind of person Voldemort is.

Here's my 'but', though. When you mention his age it makes me think 
twice about it. Not that he doesn't have blame in what eventually 
happened to the Potters (which no one seems to be arguing anyway), 
age would be a poor excuse. However, I'm wondering where he was in 
the stages of learning Occlumency and whether he would have been 
able to hide the information from Voldemort even if he tried? I keep 
thinking about his comment, "fools who wear their hearts proudly on 
their sleeves...weak people in other words--they stand no chance 
against his powers!" I still think that comment referred to Snape 
himself at one time, and his solution was to learn Occlumency as he 
told Harry. He believes Occlumency is the only protetion from LV. 
When did he decide he needed to learn protection from him and why? 
Was he one like Regulus and the Blacks who 'got cold feet when they 
saw what [Voldemort] was prepared to do to get power." ??(OOTP, 
chap. 6 p. 112, Scholastic)

I'm thinking it's more likely the prophecy incident was the 
motivator for the Occlumency since DD told Harry that 
Snape "hastened to tell his master what he heard, for it concerned 
his master most deeply." (HBP, chap. 25, p. 549, Scholastic)

Carol:
> (He couldn't have been there on purpose to overhear a Prophecy. He
> probably didn't even know there would be a job interview since it 
> was not the end of summer.) He follows Dumbledore, overhears part
> of the interview and part of the Prophecy and is kicked out of the
>  bar. 

Jen: Why was he there? I keep wondering that. Maybe his job at that 
time was to tail Dumbledore because the plan was to eventually get a 
job and spy on him. The only other plausible option I can think if 
is he just happened to be in the Hog's Head that night, saw 
Dumbledore head upstairs and decided to follow.

Carol:
> Quite possibly Voldemort's reaction took him by surprise. Instead 
> of regarding the Prophecy as a vague future threat that might come
> to pass when some kid born in July became old enough to threaten
> him, Voldemort was worried about as yet unborn babies. Maybe young
> Snape started worrying then, too, even watching the birth
> announcements. 

Jen: It paints a picture of Snape as awfully naive not to wonder for 
a moment what Voldemort would do with the information. Naive or 
worse, unconcerned. I'm all for the possibility that the Snape Harry 
knows is not the Snape who joined the DE's, became bitter and battle-
scarred, and possibly permanently altered himself practicing 
Occlumency so much. Still, naivete as a young man doesn't strike me 
as being in-character. Unconcern does, though.

Karen:
> And maybe it is wrong of me, but I somehow find it a lot more
> heinous when someone who always pretended to be a friend would be
> so traitorous where as, Snape, though he hated James in school, is
> in a much more removed position. Not that it is a Good Thing, but
> it certainly isn't in the same league as Wormtail; someone who 
> probably spent a lot of time with the Potters, for years, came over
> for dinner and listened to quidditch games on the WWN etc. That is
> just really sad.

Jen: I totally agree. The fact that Snape hated James doesn't make 
it right but if he did indeed honestly try to amend for his actions 
it was a helluva lot more than Peter ever did, and was a much bigger 
leap since Snape hated the guy. Harry *does* hold Snape to a higher 
standard than Wormtail, as did his father and friends before him. 
That underestimation had a hand in all the heartache Peter is 
responsible for. People don't operate in vacuums. 


Jen