Draco and Harry

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 147151

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > It's the difference between a character purposefully being an 
> > antagonist and a character tripping into the role through 
> > misunderstanding and misspeaking.  The first is pretty straight 
> > up and down, but the second leaves all sorts of interesting      
> > wiggle room.  It's the space JKR left herself by going with the 
> > second option that I find so significant. 

> >>Alla:
> OK, I  am sorry, but I need more clarification, if you don't mind. 
> I am guessing we will disagree anyways, but I have no idea what   
> are you talking about.
> What space JKR left for herself? She portrays Draco as prejudiced 
> against ALL muggleborns. What wiggle room she gave herself by 
> portraying Draco that way?
> <snip>
> So, let me ask you again, why do you think it is better that Draco 
> insults all Muggleborns than if he would specifically insults Lily?
 
Betsy Hp:
Pippin touched on this a little bit in her response.  There's a huge 
difference between the personal and the generic.  Draco's beliefs 
about the "wrong sort" are completely generic.  They've been taught 
to him by his parents and unchallenged by his sheltered upbringing.

But what Draco has been taught is wrong.  Only his ignorace keeps 
that belief going.  Any competent muggleborn proves his parents' 
beliefs a lie.  If Draco had had a personal reason to hate 
muggleborns (say Lily Evans killed his brother, or some such thing) 
than it'd be a harder belief to change.  But since his belief is 
based on a fairly shaky foundation it will only take a minor amount 
of self-examination to destroy.

JKR took pains to show that Draco is parroting his parents.  He's 
trying to befriend, or at least be friendly to, Harry and he says 
the wrong thing.  It displays Draco's prejudices (and the fact that 
such prejudices exist), but she's careful to show that his 
prejudices aren't built on anger ("She killed my brother!") or 
something personal like that.  This leaves room for Draco to, say, 
see Hermione as someone intelligent enough to get ideas from and 
open for the type of instruction Dumbledore gives on the Tower.  It 
leaves Draco open for change.

> >>Gerry:
> So because Draco accidently insulted Harry's mum he should be      
> excused? The only accident here is Draco not verifying thouroughly 
> enough that Harry was the right kind. <sarcasm> Poor Draco, messed 
> up his chance to be friends with Harry Potter because he           
> accidently let slip how much he despises people like Harry's      
> mum.</sarcasm>

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I didn't get that Draco "despised" anyone in that scene.  He 
just saw some type of people as lesser than.  Which is not a good 
thing, obviously, but not as passionate (or as personal) as 
despising someone.

And I'm not excusing Draco's insults at all.  I'm just saying that 
Draco *did* try to befriend Harry, and that his beliefs are 
something that can change.  And that JKR makes it fairly obvious 
that Draco's beliefs can be changed.  Oh, and I'm also pointing out 
that the chance for Draco and Harry to be friends was ruined by 
misunderstanding and misspeaking.  Draco would have approached Harry 
differently, I believe, if he'd had known it was Harry Potter he was 
speaking to.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > That's part of the reason why it was necessary for Harry to     
> > *not* befriend Draco too early on in the series, I think.       
> > Because through his association with Harry, Draco would have had 
> > his ignorant beliefs challenged.  And HBP wouldn't have been    
> > nearly as interesting.

> Alla:
> But that is why Harry did not want association with Draco, no? 
> BECAUSE of his beliefs?

Betsy Hp:
I think it was more Draco's confidence in the shop (Harry responds 
badly to intimidation) and then Draco's rudeness to Ron.  I'm not 
sure that Draco's beliefs really overtly entered into it until CoS.  
Draco came across as a snob in PS/SS.  It was CoS that brought out 
his bigotry.  

> >>Alla:
> What are you basing your assumption on that Draco could be        
> a "swell person"? 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'm basing my understanding of Draco's character on what JKR has 
written.  And she's shown that he can be determined, intelligent, 
loyal, funny, brave, creative and insightful.  His most negative 
trait is his bigotry.  And frankly, I think that's a fairly easy fix.

It's why I think that if Draco *had* become friends with Harry in 
their first year, Draco would have moved beyond his bigotry years 
ago. Hard to think ill of a people that includes your friend's mom.

> >>RP:
> I see this 'Draco is a female type of bully' argument a lot, and I
> must confess never quite getting it :-)
> <snip>
> But when has he verbally abused someone who is unable to either   
> retaliate or ignore him? When has he ever verbally abused someone 
> who is speech challenged, or not very good at the language Draco   
> speaks? Also, Draco is often the less popular among the two       
> parties voicing a less popular opinion, so he doesn't even        
> function like a 'mean girl' sort in my mind.

Betsy Hp:
I guess the closest he comes is in PS/SS when he tells Neville that 
he's not good enough for Gryffindor.  Draco hit Neville where he 
lived with that comment (insightful of Draco to know that would 
hurt). I suppose Ron could be seen as the other "victim" of 
Draco's "mean girl".  At least, Draco gets a rise out of Ron more 
consistently than anyone else he picks on, I think.

But you're right.  Draco doesn't pick on people weaker than him.  
Neville is his age, he's a pureblood (an equal in Draco's mind), and 
we learn that Neville is made of much sterner stuff than Harry gives 
him credit for.  And Ron is in the more powerful position, being 
best-friends with the "Chosen One" and all.  (Plus there's the older 
brothers.)

> >>RB:
> <snip>
> So yeah, while Draco undoubtedly has the foulest mouth in         
> Hogwarts, is mean and ill-spirited, I just can't call him         
> a 'bully' with a straight face. Judging from the fact that Draco   
> keeps pestering the three people who'd given him hell time and     
> again, I really doubt he goes after those who he knows are weaker 
> than him (that's how Dudley works), I think he goes after those he 
> really dislikes. Not saying that makes him an angel, of course :-D

Betsy Hp:
But don't you just admire his spirit?  I mean, Draco *never* wins.  
He's constantly getting smeared by greater numbers, etc., etc., but 
he keeps coming back for more.  He just. won't. quit.

I agree though that Draco really doesn't cut it as a bully.  JKR 
could easily make him one, but she doesn't.  Also significant, I 
think.

Betsy Hp, raising an eyebrow.  Significantly.  ;-)