The importance of death /Harry and Cedric

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 147263

Lupinlore:
> And what do the feelings of Cedric's parents have to do with 
> anything?   The question, I recall, was whether Harry's suffering 
> under Snape is not much less than Cedric's suffering for losing 
his 
> life.  And the answer is that that is a nonsensical comparison, as 
> Cedric is not suffering at all.  He's dead.  He's abiological.  
His 
> sensory and cognitive processes are defunct.  He's no longer among 
> the existing.  Sorry about that, but it's the way the story went.  
> Therefore he has no status as suffering at all.  Did his parents 
> suffer a great loss?  Sure.  But that is totally irrelevant to the 
> way things were phrased.

Alla:

I understand your rationale, Lupinlore, I guess, although I am 
hesitant to go all the way and say that death is better than what 
Snape does to Harry(and you know that I see Snape as an abuser).I 
agree with you that while parents suffer greatly, Cedric is not 
suffering anymore, BUT Cedric will not get to experience any GOOD 
things in life either. Let's put it this way - because of Peter 
Cedric lost everything - good and bad things that life may offer, 
while Harry suffered a lot from Snape, but still has plenty of 
opportunities to have good things after he is done with Voldemort( 
if he survives of course and I do think that IF he survives, JKR 
does not necessarily has to pull a Frodo on us). I think happy or 
semi happy ending is possible for Harry after all. Snape did not 
prevent him (of course if he is Evil, he may try ;)) from falling in 
love, having kids, etc,etc. Peter prevented Cedric from having all 
that.

So, while I probably agree with you that Harry's suffering may be 
greater, Cedric lost so much more than Harry did,IMO.


Lupinlore:
> That is probably part of the problem I have with OOTP and GoF.  I 
> just don't buy that Harry would be so affected by the death of a 
> classmate he hardly knew, for one thing.  True, there are a lot of 
> other circumstances surrounding that death that were traumatic, 
and 
> which I could see affecting Harry in the way she displayed, but 
those 
> aren't the things dwelled on in OOTP.  Rather it is the fact of 
> Cedric's death, which, considering that Harry had already been the 
> instrument of the death of Quirrel, hardly seemed cause for such 
> emotional overkill.  

Alla:

Wow, it seems I found another topic I disagree with you on besides 
JKR's writing skills. :-) You don't buy Harry being affected by the 
death of Cedric? I definitely buy it. First of all, I don't 
think "hardly knew" is correct, because during the whole year of GoF 
Harry competed against Cedric in the competition, where there were 
only two other competitors and they did get to know each other well 
enough IMO, BUT I don't think it matters whether Harry knew Cedric 
or not. Cedric's death is the death of an innocent, the first death 
Harry gets to see with open eyes, so to speak, while he was not even 
aware that Quirrell died and the fact that Quirrell was not really 
himself certainly helped Harry not to dwell of it. Harry blames 
himself for Cedric death. Is it necessary to know the person to feel 
that you are responsible for his death? I can certainly imagine 
blaming myself for the death of complete stranger, IF in my mind 
there would be sufficient reasons for me to place such blame on 
myself. Now, such reasons could be totally irrational, but does it 
really matter? As long as Harry feels that he is responsible ( and I 
do not believe that he is), he will feel traumatized by it. It 
really rang true to me.


Lupinlore:
<SNIP>
And then she turns around and shows Harry hardly 
> being affected by the death of a man around whom most of his 
familial 
> fantasies revolved.  Illogical and unbelievable, all things 
> considered.

Alla:

Sorry, disagree again - Harry does not forget about Sirius at all 
and as I wrote in the past me being a Sirius fan and all, I would 
have been upset if he did. Harry does not go in CAPSLOCK mode in his 
grief, true, but all people grief differently. Harry is a subtle 
griever, IMO. I loved how JKR handled it, absolutely did.

JMO,

Alla