Snape's Culpability? ...Was or Will Be Born

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 147319

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" <miles at m...> wrote:
>
> lupinlore wrote:
> > Why was Voldemort's reaction neither sane nor logical?  Let's
> > see, he's told that the one with the power to destroy him will
> > be born as the seventh month wanes ...  This means it can only
> > be one of two possbilities.
> 
> Miles:
> This child was not born then. So nobody could know that there are
> *only* two possibilities. You judge the situation by information
> that neither Snape, Voldemort nor anyone had ...

#147312
> fuzz876i:
> Snape knew perfectly well what the prophecy meant even if he did
> only hear half of it. As Dumbledore stated that it could have been
> one of two, Harry or Neville. ...

bboyminn:

You are all ignoring a point which I stressed very strongly in several
previous post. In that moment it is nothing more than an assumption
that a child WILL BE born in the most recent occurance of the seventh
month.

The Prophecy doesn't say that at all. It simply says "Born as the
seventh month dies". Not 'will be' born, and neither 'was' born; just
'born'. 

Evidence has come to light after the fact, in the many years that
followed, that have lead Dumbledore to conclude that the Prophecy
referred to either Neville or Harry, but neither Snape nor Voldemort
could know that in the moment. And, indeed, Voldemort might have
interpreted it wrong. Since the Prophecy merely says 'born' that could
 just as easily mean someone born 50 years ago or someone to be born 5
years in the future.

Voldemort chose for the Prophecy to mean '/about to be/ born in the
up-coming month of July'. As Dumbledore explained in the latest book,
the Prophecy only has the meaning that Voldemort gives it. If
Voldemort chose to ignore it as the rambling of a mad old fraud, then
it would mean nothing. If Voldemort chose for the Prophecy to mean the
pureblood Neville rather than the mixed-blood Harry, then that is what
it would mean. 

In a sense, Voldemort didn't follow the Prophecy, he created it. He is
the one that gave the mad pointless ramblings their meanings, and by
assigning meaning to them, he maked them true.

How could Snape possible predict all this in advance? How could Snape
possibly know that Voldemort would choose the Potters instead of an
annoying French waiter? The answer is, he couldn't. He couldn't
possible have been able to work out in advance that Voldemort would
decide the prophecy had significance, nor could he work out that
Voldemort would decide that the significance was indeed the Potters.
Any application of logic at this point, after a long string of
assumptions, would have lead to the pureblood Longbottoms.

In the moment that Snape received the Prophecy, it's significance
spanned the entire lifetime of Voldemort, at least. It could have
referred to anyone who had opposed Voldemort in any way at any time as
long as they opposed him three times. The Prophecy could refer to the
son or daughter of a Death Eater who had complained three times about
how poorly thought out Voldemort's wacky schemes were. 

I still say we all see the significance of the Prophecy clearly
because Dumbledore explained it all to us. But Dumbledore's insight
comes from history. He has knowledge of circumstances that have
already occurred from which to draw his conclusions on what Voldemort
thought and what Voldemort chose. 

Snape, in the moment, does not have the luxury of that hindsight. The
Prophecy when it was heard could mean anything, it could be
interpreted in a nearly unlimited number of ways which certainly
includes no significance at all.

I really don't see how anyone can hold Snape responsible for the mad
rambling conclusions of Voldemort. Certainly Snape has done his share
of wrong, and has commited his share of crimes; he was a Death Eater
after all. But to say that he could predict the full extent of
Voldemort's conclusions relative to the Prophecy fragment seems beyond
the pale.

Yes, by passing the Prophecy fragment to Voldemort, Snape set a series
of unpredictable events into motion, but I hardly see him any more to
blame that the CIA agent who gathered info on Weapons of Mass
Destruction and passed them on. 

That CIA agent couldn't possibly know in the moment that this
information would be used as an immediate call to war by the
President. Neither could Snape, predict or be held accountable for the
decisions of his leader. In both cased the 'agent' knew that this was
important information with /nasty/ potential, but it is their job to
pass the information on, not to speculate on the /nasty/ potential
lurking in the minds of their own leaders. 

Again, just trying to put things in perspective.

Steve/bboyminn