DD trust in Snape again. WAS: Evil Hermione

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 154709


> 
> Alla:
> 
> Because Harry is much more important figure than Barty Crouch and 
> Dumbledore would have been much more displeased?

Pippin:
But Dumbledore was *furious* and rightly so. Who knows how many
lives might have been saved if Barty had been able to give evidence,
Sirius's not least. Yet he never questioned McGonagall, AFAWK.

Brooms aren't supposed to be hexable, so I imagine a countercurse
for a broomstick hex wouldn't be common knowledge. How could
the wizengamot expect Snape  to know one, much less realize that 
he needed to use it? Most likely the curse itself wouldn't have been
recognized. Everyone would have thought Harry was showing off
and tragically fell to his death, Dumbledore included. 

> Pippin: 
> > ( I cannot resist remarking that Lupin's displays of remorse are 
> > very much in evidence.: And that I agree with Phoenixgod that 
> > remorse alone is never enough.)
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, and I LOVE Lupin for that, for his remorse. Something that I am 
> still to see from Snape.

Pippin:
I, like Phoenixgod, do not think remorse in itself is any good.
I want to see some restitution. I've seen plenty of that from Snape.
Of course if Harry's life  doesn't matter to you...:)

> > Pippin:
> < HUGE SNIP>
> > I defy you to show me one moment when Harry's dignity 
> > was destroyed by Snape. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Sure, but I did not say that Snape succeeded in destructing Harry 
> dignity. He TRIED, yes, the fact that Harry is strong does not make 
> Snape ATTEMPTS less despicable to me.
> 
> I don't need to show you how Snape destroyed Neville's dignity, 
> don't I?

Pippin:
Um, I don't remember Neville's dignity being destroyed. Snape
destroyed Neville's confidence at potions, I suppose. But surely
there is more to Neville than that? And potions is an unforgiving
art--like surgery or piloting airplanes. You don't want it being
done by second-raters.  I don't think confidence at
potions is a good thing to have, if you are not very skilled
with them. Look what happened to Luna's mother.

> 
> But back to Harry. Of course when Harry is looking for DD to tell 
> him about Barty Sr. counts to me, 

Pippin:
This caused Harry to lose his dignity? How? Harry did feel that
Snape wasn't taking him seriously. I suppose that Arthur was 
attempting to destroy Harry's dignity in HBP when he pooh-poohed 
Harry's suspicions about Draco?

Alla:
of course when Snape is too 
> humiliated to confess that thirteen year old wizards overpowered him 
> and comes up with the tale that they were confunded counts to me ( 
> and no, I am not buying that Snape was trying to save them from      
> expulsion there - if he truly did, all that he needed IMO was not to 
> open his mouth AT ALL, there was no need to tell Fudge that Trio did 
> ANYTHING to Snape in the first place to put them in danger of 
> explulsion in the first place).

Pippin:
How was this an attempt to take Harry's dignity? If anybody seems to
have lost dignity here it is Snape, who is still admitting that he was
overcome by three thirteen year old wizards. Fudge was assuming
that Sirius had wounded him. If Snape had said nothing, then
Sirius would have looked all the more guilty and Snape all the more
heroic.

Alla:
 Of course Snape "teaching" 
> Occlumency to Harry counts to me and of course the fact that Harry 
> feels "imprisoned" when he is in the room with Snape shows to me 
> that Snape at least PARTIALLY suceeded in destroying his dignity.

Pippin:
Um, considering that any number of Harry's teachers have tried to
kill him or do him permanent harm behind closed doors, I should
 think that feeling afraid when a teacher closes the door on him is a 
conditioned and understandable response. Constant vigilance!

But Harry knows in this case why secrecy is required and he masters 
his fear. Very commendable. He also knows why Snape has to invade his 
mind. Snape does not show any sign of enjoying poking around in 
Harry's past.  He never takes any advantage of what he learns.
He keeps encouraging Harry to stop him by any means he can
think of, and unlike in potions class, he never smirks when Harry
fails. Instead, he's angry, just as he is with Neville.

I don't doubt Snape's anger is counterproductive, I just don't see
it as aimed at destroying  a students' dignity. It's supposed to get  them
to apply themselves. It's interesting that he doesn't use it in the
NEWT classes, where he can assume that everyone is motivated and
basically competent-- no dunderheads allowed.

Pippin