Being Good and Evil ( Draco and a bit of Ron)/Harry as DD man

[Adriana]

No: HPFGUIDX 154747

Glykonix:
I'm supposed to be studying for my exams but I can't help but join 
in.

 >>Alla:
  It seemed to me very clear that she was not making excuses 
 for Draco, just gave his reasons, but what I read from this 
 paragraph reads to me as absolute excuse for Draco. WHY is it too 
 much to expect from him? 
 Doesn't he have his head on the shoulders to understand that      
 murder is wrong/
 
 Betsy Hp:
What murder?  I'm talking about Lucius being among the crowd that 
twirled the muggle family in the air.  No one died there.  And Draco 
doesn't turn on his father because he loves him and because muggle-
baiting is not seen as a horrible wrong within the WW.  We saw that 
earlier with the twins.

Glykonix:
For one thing no one seemed to think much of those muggles any way
 
the way they obilviated them all day long. Wouldn't it have been 
easier to give them a sleeping potion or something for as long as 
the World Quidditch Cup was happening. And of course Draco should 
have been horrifeied by how father was dangling muggles in the air. 
But the memory of Draco turned into a ferret and bounced in the air 
is one of the best moments for Harry and Ron.
so I totally agree with what Betsy Hp says:
 
 Yes, it's    
 morally more mature, I think, to look at the action and divorce 
 it from your emotional feelings about the people involved.  But 
 it's *hard*. And for some reason Draco is expected to make this 
 massive leap, but Harry is not. 

>>Alla:
 See, I kept thinking about your argument that Harry did not have  
 the same crisis as Draco did at the end of HBP and I realised     
 something. I don't think he is supposed to.

Glykonix:
As a matter of fact I believe Harry had a very similar moment in 
PoA. Through the whole book he was set on killing Sirius, and yet 
when the moment comes he can't. (although I always questioned how 
did he plan to kill Sirius, I don't believe he knew any useful 
spells) That night he also really understand what killing is about 
and he stops Sirius and Remus from Killing the real traitor.  


 >>Alla:
 <snip>
 How about being around Dumbledore and at least seeing that what    
 Draco's side does is bad?
 
 Betsy Hp:
 Well, at first you have that house cup debacle in PS/SS.  That 
 wasn't going to win Draco over.  But when Draco *does* finally 
 interact with Dumbledore (in HBP) he does start to question his 
 beliefs, I think.  Hence his hesitation and his lowering wand.

Glykonix:
Exactly, I was wandering when would somebody bring the `house cup 
debacle in PS/SS'. It's not that the Gryffindors didn't deserve all 
those points, but did Dumbledore have to award them once the whole 
school knew Slytherin had won. Can't say I blame draco for not 
having a high opinion on Dumbledore, not only has he heard the worst 
about the headmaster from his father but he also Dumbledore 
humiliates his house.
And yes when he actually interacts with Dumbledore, when Dumbledore 
actually goes and offers him a second chance, protection for himself 
and his family, yes only then does he understand that what he had 
been thought was wrong. 

 >>Alla: 
 I would not suggest Draco becoming Harry best friend and adoring 
 him, that is not possible, but if nothing else as I said to        
 realise that his side is bad and that is why maybe it makes sense 
 to join the other even if he does not like people there much?
 Simply because they do not kill for a living and fun, if nothing 
 else.
 
 Betsy Hp:
 Draco's father doesn't kill for a living.  And if he does kill for 
 fun, Draco doesn't know anything about it.  When Draco *is* faced 
 with killing he does start to question things.

Glykonix:
Again I totally agree with this. Draco doesn't know about the 
killings, he certainly hasn't seen death since he can't see the 
Thestrals. To him death is ghosts roaming around the castle and bed 
time stories about when the chamber of secrets was first opened. 
And on the topic of the chamber of secrets, I saw an earlier post 
about how he wanted to kill Mudbloods and help the heir. Well what 
can I say he was a 12 year old kids. Even in the RL 12 year old kids 
are quite thrilled about killing and gory stuff. Ron was very 
excited about the disfigured skeletons in the pyramids.


>>Betsy Hp:
 For me it's the quivering smirk. [GoF scholastic hardback       
 p.729] Too small? <g>  It is more than we get from either Harry 
 or Hermione over poor Marietta's fate. <eg>

  
Glykonix:
 Darn not only did I miss the 'kill the spare' but also the 
quivering smile, because I read the translated version of the book.