[HPforGrownups] Being Good and Evil (was:Re: Harry's arrogance (was Evil ...

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 154780

> Nikkalmati:
> I cannot agree here.  Marietta is a clear case of someone suffering  the 
> bad
> consequences of her own actions.  HG never intentionally hexed  Marietta 
> and
> did not intend for anyone to be hexed.

Magpie:
She intentionally created a hex and it worked as intended. That she threw 
the hex pre-emptively or would have been happy if no one tripped that trap 
doesn't remove her from the equation. Marietta was unaware of taking a 
magical oath, and the oath started with the person who created it.  I 
understand that many people stand behind Hermione's decision to cast the 
curse, but at least that acknowledges Hermione being the one acting.  A lot 
of work went into that result, all on Hermione's part.

Nikkalmati:
> As far as the length of time she is marked, I don't think several months 
> is
> an indication that she will be marked "forever."  If she does not know how
> she got the marks, it may not be possible to remove them.  A countercurse
> logically requires knowledge of the curse.  She would not know to go to HG 
> for
> help and she may be afraid of DD now.  Why can't Cho help her?   She could 
> ask
> Harry to find out what the curse was, if she does not want to talk  to HG.

Magpie:
I think once we talk about something continuing on into a second book we're 
talking about a significantly long time--JKR could have easily just had it 
gone by HBP or not brought it up. Hermione could also take the initiative 
and help Marietta without being asked.  To me it sounds very much like the 
whole Montague story, which I think turned out to be a little sour for them.

Nikkalmati:
> Nikkalmati (who thinks the marks will fade eventually or go away when LV 
> is
> gone and the DA is not needed).

Magpie:
The DA's gone with the OotP. Harry states early on it's not needed now 
they've got a real DADA teacher.

Rebecca:

For a study group, it sure has a lot of importance, doesn't it? This is 
where we differ,  I think, because I see the following and wonder if it 
really is a study group to pass an OWL:

'You want to pass your Defence Against the Dark Arts OWL too, though, I 
bet?' said Michael Corner, who was watching her closely.


'Of course I do,' said Hermione at once. 'But more than that, I want to be 
properly trained in defence because. because." she took a great breath and
finished, 'because Lord Voldemort is back.'

Magpie:
Yes, it's a special study group because it's illegal.  All the students 
acknowledge that learning the Dark Arts is especially important because 
Voldemort is coming back.  But they're still having a secret DADA class. 
The results would not have been very different if they'd been having secret 
Quidditch games after Umbridge forbid their houses to play.  What they say 
doesn't reflect the life they're actually in--as you said, the kids are too 
young to really understand this sort of thing with regards to the Order in 
OotP.

Rebecca:

I'm sorry, Voldemort is working at the school? I must have misunderstood 
what you're trying to say, as I wasn't aware he working there.

Magpie:
I was referring to the assassin of Dumbledore plot in HBP which only Harry 
correctly recognizes as important.

Rebecca:
I don't know about Peter not getting any punishment for violation of his 
friends' trust whether he earned the trust in the past or not;  LV says it 
far better than me:

"You returned to me, not out of loyalty, but out of fear of your old 
friends"

He lost everything that mattered, didn't he?

Magpie:
Peter's punishment is the natural result of his actions that he must live 
with, not a secret hex that James put on him in case he ever betrayed him. 
I'm totally supportive of that type of punishment--and I do think it's a lot 
more chilling too.

-m