Snape saves Harry (or does he?)

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 154847


>PAR
> While there have been several references to Snape saving Harry, I am 
> not sure that he actually does.  Take the broom incident of SS/PS for 
> example: Snape gives the "counter-curse" to Quirrell's broom hex.  
> Quirrell is indeed trying to kill Harry by getting the broom to "buck" 
> him off.  But would a fall off a broom actually have KILLED Harry?

wynnleaf
Of course, it would depend on just how high up he was when he fell. 
Sorry, I can't remember exactly when it was, but Harry falls from his
broom later (I think POA) and DD slows his fall.  The implication is
that DD saved his life, although that would be after the fall. 
Preventing a broom from tossing him off in the first place constitutes
the same result.

PAR
> We know from SS/PS that Neville can fall from 20 feet and sustain 
> nothing more serious thatn a broken wrist (the first flying session, 
> page 182 of the paperback American edition).  And we know later that 
> Neville recounts being dropped as a child from a window -- and 
> bouncing.  We know Harry has levitated to the school roof as a child 
> when Dudley and pals were harassing him. We know that at the World cup 
> a flyer can go at high speed into the ground (twice) and while dazed, 
> not require hospitalization (and flying into the ground at speed is a 
> much higher impact problem than simply falling to the ground.  While 
> JKR isn't good at "maths" the basic principles of physics and energy 
> don't really require "maths").

wynnleaf
The basic principles of physics, etc., tend to mean that people
falling from larger heights often are seriously injured or die. 
Certainly we find examples in the WW of magic helping people live
(like Neville bouncing), but no one simply assumes that will happen. 
Otherwise, Quirrel's attempt to toss Harry off the broom would have
been completely pointless.  Quirrel was trying to kill Harry.  Surely
Voldemort of all people would know whether or not throwing someone off
a broom would have chance at killing them.

PAR
> In POA, Snape "may" believe he is rescuing Harry from Lupin and Sirius 
> but he certainly didn't go to the Whomping Willow to do so.

wynnleaf
I haven't recently seen the Shrieking Shack event mentioned as an
example of Snape saving Harry's life.  However, after Harry's patronus
chases off the dementors, Harry and friends, and Sirius are all
unconscious (Ron, too? - can't recall).  At that point, their lives
are still in danger from the werewolf and Snape brings them all to
safety (purely relative for Sirius, of course).

PAR
> In GOF, Snape is not there to "save" Harry from his encounter with LV -
> - and in the encounter with Crouch/fake Moody, it isn't Snape who 
> saves Harry but DD.

wynnleaf
Actually, we aren't told why in particular Snape or McGonagall are
there.  DD's is the one to use the Stupify.  DD seemed to know that
Harry was in danger as soon as he was removed from the maze area
without DD's approval (having told Harry to stay and it sounds like
Moody/Crouch would have heard DD give that order).  It may be that DD
asked Snape and McGonagall to come with him.  Nevertheless, they were
all there because it was assumed that Harry's life might still be in
danger -- and of course none of them knew exactly what they'd find on
the other side of the door.  While we don't know exactly what Snape
would have done if there had been further danger after the Stupify, he
was shown in the foe-glass as an "enemy" of Crouch, Jr. and therefore
one must assume he'd have been working to stop whatever he found
Crouch doing to Harry at that moment.  

So no, it is not specifically Snape that saved Harry in that instance,
but he was part of the small group that came *in order* to save Harry,
even if it was only at DD's request.

> PAR
> In the OOP, it's argued that Snape "saves" Harry by sending the Order 
> to the MOM -- I disagree.  He had to notify the order that Harry was 
> missing -- if he hadn't, either as DDM OR as ESE, he would have had to 
> explain that serious lapse to Dumbledore.  

wynnleaf
He did not simply notify the Order that Harry and friends were missing
(which, by the way, he could have done).  He told the Order to go to
the MOM, *and* he told the Order to alert DD and send him, too. 
Regardless of his motivations, this did indeed save both Harry's life
and the lives of his friends.  And as regards the supposed problems
with the timing of his alert and whether or not he should have alerted
them earlier, DD knew about what Snape did and seemed to have no
problems with it.

PAR
> I don't believe Snape has actually ever actually SAVED Harry and 
> certainly not at the risk of his own life.  Which is one reason why 
> LID!Snape makes some sense as an explanation of his actions.  

wynnleaf
Interesting how this version of Spinners End persists.  Bellatrix had
no idea that Snape had saved anyone's life - ever - and never asked
him about why he'd saved anyone's life.  Snape never explains his
actions in saving Harry's or anyone else's life, because he is never
asked about it.  And he certainly never volunteers that information
either.  He comments on DD's "weakness" and recent injury, but
neglects (surprise, surprise) to mention that he'd just finished
saving DD's life.  He taunts Bella with the MOM "fiasco" but never
tells her that the Order showed up because he sent them.  And he talks
about why he had never murdered Harry, but never tells her he'd made
any attempts to save his life.

In terms of listing the lives Snape has saved, or been instrumental in
saving, the point isn't necessarily motivation.  One might argue
motivation for each case, but it doesn't negate the fact that he
saved, or help save, Harry and others on numerous occasions.

wynnleaf