Evil Hermione

[huntergreen_3]

No: HPFGUIDX 154946

Eggplant wrote:
> >> I think Marietta got off very lightly. Marietta was part of a
> secret underground organization that was trying to oppose a brutal
> tyrant, and she betrayed them.

HunterGreen previously:
> Except that it wasn't a "secret" organization when she joined, now
> was it? Nor was the goal to oppose a tyrant.

Lanval:
>>It may not have been stated that way explicitly, but I believe the
DA WAS precisely that, at least partly -- opposition to a tyrant,
albeit a minor one at this point. <<

HunterGreen: 
That was certainly the way Harry and others in the DA saw it, but 
that doesn't mean that *Marietta* saw it that way. We don't know what 
Cho told her to get her to that first meeting, and at the meeting the 
purpose was discussed as learning DADA spells from Harry to resist 
*Voldemort*. 

Lanval continued:
>>If the first DA meeting wasn't about a secret organization, then why
the Hog's Head? Why the fear that the veiled figure might be
Umbridge? Why the alarm, when Ginny imitates Umbridge? Why the
parchment? Why the hesitation by some to sign? As Ernie says, what
if Umbridge finds out?<<

HunterGreen:
Hermione says it herself, there is NOTHING in the rules against study 
groups, she just thought it would be a good idea not to *parade* what 
they were doing. But it wasn't against ANY rules at that time, and it 
certainly wasn't anything that would get anyone expelled. Why the 
parchment then is a good question. Imagine if Marietta (or anyone 
else in the group for that matter) told on the group before it was 
even against the rules. Would that warrant having "sneak" written on 
their face for *years*?

Lanval:
>>Marietta may not have been completely aware that she was about to
join a secret organization when she set out for Hogsmeade that day,
but by the time she got back, there could have been no doubt.<<

HunterGreen:
Secret, maybe, but not illegal or something she'd get expelled for. 
At that time, when she put her name on the parchment, there was 
nothing Umbridge could do to them for joining the group (and that's 
proved by the fact that although she did know that the meeting 
happened and who exactly was there, nothing happened to any of them, 
since there was nothing she COULD do at the time). 


Lanval:
>>A mere few days later, the DA most certainly was illegal, and
therefore more secret than ever.
THAT would have been the time for Marietta to decide whether she
wanted to continue.<<

HunterGreen:
But even if she didn't continue, her name was still on the paper, now 
wasn't it? And she knew the meetings were still going on, she still 
was still involved whether she went to the meetings or not.



Lanval:
>>By the way, was there anything in the book about Marietta's family,
beside Cho remarking that M's mother works at the Ministry, and that
her parents have forbidden her to do anything that might upset
Umbridge? I don't recall.<<


HunterGreen:
Marietta's mother was also helping police the fires. If someone in 
her family wasn't for the ministry, that would be a rather odd 
pairing with her mother. 

Lanval:
>>So to say that Marietta MUST have been raised in the firm belief
that the ministry can do no wrong, that she really had no free will
in this matter, strikes me as nothing but speculation. For all we
can guess, her parents may have told her to stay out of trouble from
fear. Disobeying one's parents doesn't seem that much of an effort
for Cho, who strongly believes in what she's doing, or the Weasley
kids. At fifteen, it usually has crossed a person's mind that
parents may just occcasionally be wrong, and that the time has come
to do one's own thing.<<

HunterGreen:
Yes, she was certainly old enough to see things differently than her 
parents, but that doesn't mean she DID. Of course she had a choice in 
the matter, and apparently she chose to believe her parents and the 
ministry. Why else would she go to Umbridge? Just to be vindictive? 
Cho, by the way, has a personal reason to defy the ministry (Cedric's 
death, of course) and the Weasleys have their parents on the side of 
Dumbledore, so 'disobeying', in their case, is much different. (a 
better example is Percy. He may have been wrong, but he did stand 
behing what he believed, even against his family).


Lanval:
>>Marietta could have told Hermione she was uncomfortable with the DA,
and that she wanted out.

She could have confided in her best friend.

She could have gone to her Head of House.

She could have written to her parents.<<

HunterGreen:
I doubt that Marietta trusted Hermione (Cho certainly has a bad 
opinion of her). And confiding in Cho? The girl who is an emotional 
wreck and got her into that situation in the first place? Yes, she 
could have gone to Flitwick, I can see that, and she could have 
written to her parents, but perhaps she was trying to deal with the 
situation on her own.

Lanval:
>>Notice also the manner in which she tells Umbridge. This is not a
tear-stained, distraught girl worn down by doubt, ready to confess!
This is a calculating, nasty little traitor who rats out other
students, including her BEST FRIEND. Nor do I see evidence that she
mentioned her own involvement in the DA, at least not a first.<<

HunterGreen:
I don't see it that way. Umbridge even said she had to 'question her 
further'. Marietta didn't know there was a hex on the parchment, so 
there was no reason for her to omit details unless she felt guilty or 
conflicted about what she was doing. Personally, I see it as 
something she had to brace herself to do. Again, I am not trying to 
say that was she did was right in any way, but that she herself was 
not trying to be evil. She wasn't bribed by Umbridge, she didn't skip 
up to her and say immediately that there was a secret organization in 
the school. Marietta doesn't seem to pleased with herself after the 
fact either, and I have trouble believing that she was THAT 
distressed over the hex appearing on her face (though, perhaps that 
was just what it was), and Umbridge is treating her rather badly, so 
it doesn't appear that Marietta is getting any sort of reward for 
what she did. 


Oh, and as to the assertion in other posts that Marietta's actions 
are similar to Peter's, that a REALLY extreme way of putting it, 
don't you think? After all, no one was going to be MURDERED by 
Umbridge, and there's no doubt in my mind that Peter knew what he was 
doing was completely wrong. Whereas, I think Marietta thought she was 
doing the right thing. 

Also, as an aside, I have always thought that a mass-expelling of 
everyone in the DA would not work as neatly as Fudge and Umbridge 
think it would have. By that point, I think, they were losing some of 
their credibility in the WW, and if it came out that twenty-eight 
students were expelled for practising DADA spells (including Amelia 
Bones' neice, and famous aurors Frank and Alice Longbottom's son). 
They were building Harry up all year as a liar, and some of the 
others (like the Weasleys and the muggle-borns) would be tossed off, 
but the others, well, I doubt the idea would be immediately embraced 
that it was justified to expel 10% of the school (going with the 
assumption that there are 280 students).