Evil Hermione, and Traitor Marietta

[lanval1015]

No: HPFGUIDX 154993

> > Well, it can't be both, can it? Either Marietta is very deeply 
> > concerned that the DA is a threat, or else she sees it as kids 
doing 
> > things behind an unpopular teacher's back. Neither scenario 
excuses 
> > her, but they are so far apart that they can't, IMO, be combined 
> > into one argument by those defending her possible intentions and 
> > motives (mind, I don't think anyone here is defending her 
treachery 
> > per se).
> >  
> Pippin:
> Of course they can! Marietta can rationalize her involvement in the 
group
> and her agreement not to tell anyone with reason number one, until 
> they start learning how to fight dementors.

Lanval:
I'll give you this much: the two arguments can be combined in a 
linear fashion, first one, then the other. However, they cannot be 
used side by side. If one wants to defend Marietta's motive, A can 
change to B, but by the time the betrayal takes place, it has to be 
either one.

.Pippin:
> Then her rationalization no longer works. Learning to fight 
dementors
> is not part of the OWL exam by any stretch of the imagination. Nor,
> from Marietta's point of view, can it be part of an anti-Voldemort 
> effort, since the dementors are supposed to be anti-Voldemort 
themselves.
> 


Lanval:

Not part of the OWL exam? Only because it's too advanced. Professor 
Tofty has no problem asking Harry to produce a Patronus for extra 
points. Meaning it's part of DADA.

The HP lexicon qualifies Dementors as Dark Creatures, along with 
Banshees, Boggarts, Grindylows, Kappas, Werewolves and Vampires. 
Please show me canon proof that dementors, and protection against 
them, has never been part of the study schedule. 

Read Lupin's little speech about the Dementors in PoA. "Dementors are 
among the foulest creatures that walk this earth".  I know you think 
he lies whenever he opens his mouth :), but try and believe him for 
once.

Marietta isn't deaf, blind or a complete moron. She would 
have to be all three to not be aware of what Dementors are, and do. 
Even Fudge, who's supposed to be in charge of them, isn't all that 
comfortable around them, is he? Marietta heard DD's welcome speech in 
PoA; she has been told that, if she's unlucky enough to come across a 
dementor, telling him she's a good girl, and that her mom works for 
Fudge, isn't going to do her any good. She likely saw what happened 
to 
Harry on the Quidditch field. She may have experienced the Dementor's 
presence on the train.

How can anyone, knowing this, and having experienced this, NOT think 
it might be a good idea to at least know what to do, in case one 
comes face to face with a creature so notoriously unreliable?

Loathing of Dementors seems to be the common sentiment in the WW. 
Many see them as necessary evils for guarding Azkaban; some may have 
approved of using them to catch Sirius Black. But for the most part, 
there seems to be fear, loathing, discomfort. Show me proof where it 
says that Marietta, or her parents, don't feel that way.

Also, where in the book does it state that Harry is calling for an 
out-and-out battle against the Dementors? How exactly is a Dementor 
hurt by a Patronus? What aggressive action, as in *fighting them*, is 
involved here? All Harry does is teach the kids a spell to protect 
themselves, a spell that will perhaps save their lives. 

By your definition, a Patronus would be an illegal spell. Wanna bet 
Fudge knows how to produce one, and has worked long and hard on it? :)

Pippin:
> At that point Marietta would have to choose between her own beliefs 
> and Cho's friendship. She tried, IMO, to get out of the choice by 
> going to Umbridge.


Lanval:

How on earth is this getting out of the choice? She delivered her 
friend into Umbridge's hands by her actions! It would be quite a 
different scenario, had she somehow talked Cho, or tricked her, into 
staying away from the DA meeting the day she planned to tell Umbridge.


>Pippin:
> That was weak and cowardly, she should have stood up to Cho the way
> Neville stood up to the Trio in PS/SS, but I don't see where 
Marietta 
> ever had that much courage.

Lanval:
I agree completely. 
> 
.
> > 
> 
> Pippin:
> You don't think Willie Widdershins could recognize Harry Potter?
> There was no rule against forming a study group at the time. This
> was gone over quite clearly in Dumbledore's office. Umbridge had
> to wait until she had some evidence against Harry which she got, 
> mostly through Hermione's carelessness. 

Lanval:
Yes, he recognized Potter, but not necessarily the others. If 
Umbridge wanted to get them all, she would have had to catch them in 
the act. Or perhaps she thought that, after her decree, the meetings 
had ceased.

And how is it Hermione's fault? Last I checked, Marietta snitched. 
Are you saying Hermione wasn't ruthless enough with her hex?



> 
> That Marietta gave away where the meeting was to be held instead 
> of who was involved shows that she was conflicted, I think.  
> Umbridge wouldn't have been able to expel
> anybody with that information alone. But she would have been able
> to stop the meetings.

Lanval:

Note that the hex didn't go into effect until she gives Umbridge more 
info. Perhaps simply mentioning the RoR was not enough to bring it 
out? But again, I don't see proof that Umbridge did anything besides 
questioning her a bit more, and Marietta willingly told. No proof for 
me there that she was conflicted. Besides, did it not occur to 
Marietta that Umbridge would go and find out immediatly what went on, 
or send her squad? Why else did she tell her at precisely the time 
of the meeting? She could have told Umbridge at any other 
time that strange meetings were taking place in the RoR.
>