muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 155203

> > Tinktonks
> > I think that Fred and George's defence of themselves wraps this 
up,
> > they were not baiting Dudley because he was a muggle, merely 
because
> > he was a bully. The Death Eaters bait muggles purely because they
> > are muggles, without knowing or caring about the individual 
muggle.
> > The twins were dealing out their own form of retribution for 
Dudley's
> > ways. I'm not saying this justifies theire actions but it 
definitely
> > puts them in a totally different area to torturing innocent 
muggles.
> 
> Magpie:
> Fred and George's explanation doesn't wrap it up for Arthur and as 
a 
> Muggle myself it doesn't wrap it up for me.  
> 
> There is a difference between the characters, obviously, but if I 
were 
> living in their universe the distinction I would make was just that 
> Lucius et al. were DEs 24/7 while with Fred and George were okay as 
> long as they decided you had earned it, but if you put a foot out 
of 
> line out come the wands.  I'm not sure how exactly we're supposed 
to 
> view this in canon (after all Arthur is furious with the twins, so 
> it's not clear we ought to take their view as the author's or our 
> own), but if I was comparing it to real life the twins wouldn't 
come 
> out too well.  They avoid the strictly bigoted motivation, but 
their 
> actions suggest, imo, that it's lurking beneath the surface, imo.  
<SNIP>

Alla:

But where do you see it lurking in the books? IMO there is **no** 
other indication given in canon, other than punish Dudley for his 
bullying ways.

I mean, I understand the debate whether twins have any right to do it 
in the first place, but I absolutely don't understand the argument 
that they have **any** other reason than to punish Dudley for being a 
bully.

I mean, I argued in the past that I don't get Twins as DE comparison 
at all, but I would totally understand it ( disagree but understand) 
if I could see one of the two things happening in canon:

1. Dursleys were treating Harry well OR

2. Twins indicated in one way or another that they dislike Muggles ( 
I am not sure, but I don't remember that happening either)

Now, I am not arguing Twins right to punish Dudley. I mean, to me it 
is purely JKR letting Dudleys have it in any ways possible within the 
story, has nothing to do with RL ( in my mind Twins are firmly filed 
as tools of carmic justice for JKR and hysterically funny too), but 
at least I understand the 
ethics of the argument.

What I **am** trying to figure out is where in canon we can see that 
Twins have **any** other reason to do that to Dudley other than to 
punish him.

Is this argument based on Arthur dissaproval? 

JMO,

Alla, who applauds every time when Dursleys get their just desserts.