Values of Potterverse

[triinum]

No: HPFGUIDX 155260

> Alla:
> 
> Sure, WW needs to be more tolerant, I guess where we differ is that 
> I consider "pureblood superiority" to be the worst one, if for no 
> other reason that only Voldemort supporters want "muglleborns" to 
> die.

Triin:
Just for correction, I don't think they want mudbloods to die, they
just want them to keep "properly" humble and obedient and accept their
place as inferiors, just like elves and gnomes. The nobles *need* the
commons for contrast. 

Where the muggleborn-tolerant wizards differ is that they want all
wizards, regardless of their birth, rule together over elves and
gnomes. I guess that's more tolerant allright, but not *much* more.
 
> Every other form of prejudice except prejudice to non-human races 
> seems to be not so life-threatening to me.
> Bad, don't get me wrong, but not life threatening.

Triin:
Hmmm, forcing giants out of their natural habitats and lifestyle is
threatening the whole species: they are literally killing each other
off. Life-threatening then? 
 
> And I absolutely think that *good guys" whom we see close and 
> personal are much more tolerant ( I mean members of the Order) than 
> other side, I think they are used as an example, sort of.

Triin:
Yes, mostly. But certainly not Sirius, even if he's portrayed as an
"example good guy" with some cute little flaws. Intolerance is simply
a cute little flaw of his. [I like Sirius, and I think he shares his
type of intolerance with Snape, whom I like even more. They both are
utterly intolerant to the human categories that they don't like.]
 
> Alla:
> 
> <snip> to me standing to Voldemort means 
> standing up against the values he wants to implement.
> 
> And when he will be defeated , hopefully WW will at least start to 
> move towards more tolerance, kindness, etc.

Triin:
Ah, this is where I disagree. I'd say, the corruption and intolerance
was there *before* Tom Riddle came to stage, and that he *used* it to
his benefit. I think the intolerant atmosphere of the WW facilitates
Dark Lord overtakings. And then, of course, the Dark Lord makes it worse. 

When did wizards sign a contract with the soul-sucking demons, by the
way, does anybody know? Since when have the goblins been a lower race?
When were the house elves enslaved? Long before Tom was ever born, I
imagine. And the mistreatment of other magical species seems to be as
old as the invention of the wand and the development of effective
magical technologies by old day wizards.

The thing is, wizards are just human. In humans, populations go
through periods of higher and lower tolerance. And there's a pattern
to it, I think. Perhaps tolerance is something that can be *afforded*
at some times, like the times of peace and plenty, and not at other
times, when everybody is out for themselves, for there's not enough
ice cream for everybody. Maybe the bad political situation of the WW
has something to do with their frantic hiding for 300(?) years. There
will always be a constant threat out there; they are like a country
condemned to be at war for ever. And a longlasting war does no good to
the political fairness or the overall tolerance of people.

Or this is what I'd suggest. In any case, the guys with white hats
seem very little better than the black-hatted ones in HP. And that's
nicely realistic, for they are all humans; after all, in real life,
not all members of a criminal grouping are utterly evil, and not all
police workers are saints. I don't think that too many of Tom's allys
*like* doing terrible things to people, but they *can't get out* of
the grouping, and end up doing them anyway. 

Ending up with a black hat is very much a matter of circumstances
(what your parents tell you, your social position and economical
situation, etc). For example, take a man with 3 children, who wouldn't
do stray jobs for some illegal business for 50 galleons a week. The
same man, having 5 kids, is much more likely to do it. Therefore, you
can easily get a picture where a white-hatted man is more evil than a
black-hatted one, but still has a whiter hat because he has less kids
to feed, or because he got better advice from his own parents.


Triin, trying to be tolerant to people with different hats :-P