Accidental Harrycrux with a Bloodsucking Snake (long)

[Neri]

No: HPFGUIDX 155307

> Pippin:
> It's an assumption that Snape had a chance to save him. Dumbledore
> never says he wants Snape because Snape could save him. It's not
> an assumption that Dumbledore had something very important to 
> ask of Snape, but we don't know what it was.
> 

Neri:
I meant that it is an assumption that Dumbledore ever told Snape "save
yourself even if it means my death". How much support this assumption
has in canon I leave for anyone to estimate for him/herself, but as of
now it is an assumption and not a fact.

You still manage to avoid detailing your theory, so I still don't
understand what exactly happened on the tower, what Snape knew (or
didn't) and what Dumbledore told him (or didn't). I have a feeling
that this would involve several more assumptions. 
 

> > Neri:
> > If AK indeed never blasts the victim, then the DEs on the tower would 
> > know that (who'd know it better than somebody who uses AK on people 
> > all the time?). So they'd know that Snape's green light on the tower 
> > wasn't really an AK. 
> 
> Pippin:
> Most wizards haven't an ounce of logic. I doubt those four had a 
> nanogram between them.
> 

Neri:
OK, I add another assumption: All four DEs on the tower don't have a
nanogram of logic between them. 


> Pippin:
> Carol (thanks!) has given an exhaustive catalog of green light effects.
> Snape needed only to say the words "Avada Kedavra" out loud with
> no intent, then immediately and nonverbally do another spell which 
> produced the green light and propelled Dumbledore from the tower.
> 
> As Hermione says, the great advantage of nonverbals is that no
> one can tell what spell you are about to use.
> 

Neri:
OK. I add the assumption "Snape said the words Avada Kedavra out loud
with no intent, then immediately and nonverbally did another spell
which produced the green light and propelled Dumbledore from the tower."


> Neri:
> > If Dumbledore landed softly, then why is he described as "broken" 
> > with arms and legs spread wide in unnatural angles?
> 
> Pippin:
> Convulsions are one of the symptoms of severe poisoning and can
> be strong enough to break bones. But see below.
> 

Neri:
I add the assumption "the green potion generates convolutions strong
enough to break bones, but only during the last half an hour of its
action and not during the hour before".


> > Neri:
> > I still don't understand how Dumbledore arrested his own fall without 
> > his wand.
> 
> Pippin:
> With your permission, I'll assume Dumbledore is *not* a flying
> Animagus, because that would make it too easy. <g> But you don't
> need a wand to call  your Elf (HBP ch 19) Dobby can do a hover charm 
> (CoS ch 2), and he is proud to keep Dumbledore's secrets (GoF ch 21). 
> 
> He could  have stayed with Dumbledore and arranged the body if 
> necessary. That would mean there is someone to tell Harry the tale 
> when the time comes, which would be handy for JKR.
> 

Neri:
I dully add the assumption "during the three seconds or so of his fall
from the tower, Dumbledore had the time to summon Dobby who had the
time to do a hover charm".

I still don't see why couldn't Dumbledore, when he was alone on the
tower with Draco, summon Dobby to zap Draco. I guess the reason for
that would involve another assumption or three, but I've lost count
anyway <g>.

 
> Pippin:
> It's not the mechanism of the vow that needs to be considered, IMO,
> it's  the logic. As Mike points out there is no time constraint on 
> Draco's task. Since Snape's task is dependent on Draco's, it has 
> no time constraint either, except the one implied by Narcissa's 
> concern that Draco and his family not suffer for his failure. If
> that's not going to happen, Snape need not fear the vow.
> 

Neri:
In other words, a loophole. I add the assumption "there's some
loophole in the UV".

To all the above add the assumption that Harry was mistaken when he
knew that the Body-Bind curse could have only lifted because its
caster was dead.

In comparison, my alternative theory for explaining Dumbledore's
bleeding requires a single assumption: that Voldemort used Nagini's
venom in the potion from the cave. This assumption is quite reasonable
since he canonically used it in another potion. Note that I don't even
need the assumption that AK sometimes blasts people in the air, since
my theory would work just as well if Dumbledore was killed by the fall. 

So I reiterate my original claim: my explanation of Dumbledore's
bleeding is considerably more straightforward and simple.


Neri