muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 155366

> >>Betsy Hp:
> But the thing that's been bothering me is that if the muggle      
> family attacked by Death Eaters a few days later had been the      
> Dursleys, Harry would have been amused at that point too.    
> (snip)

> >>Sherry:
> I do not believe Harry would have found it funny if the Dursleys   
> had been the muggles tormented at the world cup.  Remember how he 
> saved Dudley from the dementors?  Sure, dementors are far worse    
> than being flipped upside down, but I think Harry would have been 
> very uncomfortable and unhappy and disgusted if it had happened to 
> the Dursleys.

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, I think Harry would have laughed at first.  After all, Dudley's 
gasping for air, Petunia screams of terror did not seem to phase 
him.  But then again, he knew Arthur was there to help Dudley, and 
he'd had a hint that a prank was about to be had.  He also knew that 
twins aren't murderers.  (I'll throw in a "not yet, anyway" because 
of my evil!twins soap-box <bg>.)  

But I do think that if he'd seen the Dursleys dragged into the air 
and spun around, Harry would have been amused.  However, Arthur's 
very real panic, the not joking manner of those doing the baiting 
(yes, that what I call it <g>), and the screams of fellow magical 
folk would have finally clued Harry in.  Just as Dudley's very near 
death experience at the hands of the Dementors (which Harry was 
fully cognizant of) wasn't something Harry was going to laugh at.

And I think Arthur's very real anger at the twins (the one time we 
ever witness Arthur attempt to discipline one of his children) does 
suggest that the twins' actions really were wrong.

> >>Sherry:
> He didn't even think it was funny when it happened to Snape as    
> done by James in the pensieve memory.  I think there is hope for   
> Harry, and he's not as blasé as you might think.  

Betsy Hp:
Ooh, I hope you're right.  It was nice to see Harry *not* enjoy 
Snape's pain and humiliation.  Though it was a bit disturbing when 
he suggested that Draco in a similar situation would be quite 
justified. 

I can't help but think JKR is setting up *something* when she shows 
the good guys do something and then has the bad guys reflect it 
back, only darker.  Why use the parallel if there isn't a point 
being made?  So I feel like you *are* right, Sherry.  Harry will 
learn.

> >>Alla:
> Well, this Harry supporter certainly does not imply that vengeance 
> is all there is, cannot speak for others of course.
> To me there is a huge difference between villains getting their    
> dues, by any means author thinks possible within the plot and     
> vengeance.
> Although as a reader, I am certainly "bloodfirsty" enough to hope 
> for their sufferings, that does not mean that **good guys** in
> Potterverse are just as bloodfirsty IMO.

Betsy Hp:
I guess I don't understand what else there is.  I mean, I don't like 
what Hermione did to Marietta, not because Marietta is good or 
innocent or anything other than a snitch, but because what Hermione 
did was cruel.  I don't care if Hermione had tricked Umbridge 
herself (nasty, horrible Umbridge) into tripping a disfigurement hex 
that appears to be uncurable.  I would still worry about Hermione's 
behavior for *Hermione's* sake.  Because I really don't see where 
it's about anything *more* than vengeance.

I just feel like, if you're (and I'm using universal "you" here, not 
speaking directly to Alla) going to explain (for example) why 
letting someone die of thirst is proper behavior against prefects 
who support a headmaster you dislike you're really explaining why 
vengeance is a good thing.  The twins weren't saving their lives, or 
the lives of anyone else.  They weren't even slowing Umbridge down.

The DA, on the other hand, *did* have a noble purpose and *actually* 
did something to fight Umbridge's reign.  Attacking Montague does 
nothing.  It just made the twins feel better because they got a bit 
of rage worked off.  And Harry and Ron lived a little vicariously 
through them.  But it didn't help anyone at all.  There was no 
positive effect.  Once again, Lucius Malfoy would have approved.  
(Heck *Voldemort* would have approved.)

I'm very interested to see what JKR does in the last book.  How 
interesting will it be if Marietta and Zacharius and Draco are 
needed to take down Voldemort?  It would force the trio to confront 
some of their past wrongs, and it'll give Ginny some page time too! 
<g>

Betsy Hp