[HPforGrownups] Re: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[P J]

No: HPFGUIDX 155370



Carol responds:
>The Twins know that Dudley is a Muggle and that he can't defend
>himself magically. They view Muggles as generally inferior to Wizards,
>so they probably know, or suspect, that Muggles are less tolerant of
>potion-laced candies than Wizards. It's possible that they don't
>understand that Dudley is really suffering, but I think even a wizard
>would suffer from a greatly enlarged and elongated tongue. And they
>certainly should anticipate Dudley's terror, even if they can't
>anticipate Aunt Petunia attempting to tear Dudley's tongue from his mouth.

PJ:
I don't see that at all.  Where is it written in canon that the twins view 
*Muggles* (Dudley is considered a spoiled, bullying oaf because he is, not 
simply because he's a muggle) as generally inferior and that they'd suspect, 
even for a moment, that the candies would seriously harm Dudley?  I never 
read any such thing.

Look at where the Burrow is... far from everyone with lots of fields and 
trees around.  Not a muggle in sight.  Then look at where the twins go to 
school.  No true muggles there either.  So just how would they *know* that 
muggles are less tolerant of what is child's play to wizards?   From their 
father?  Somehow I doubt it since Arthur honestly has no idea what make 
muggles tick.

Carol:
Since no one is quoting from the scene, I'll do it.

". . . Dudley . . . was kneeling beside the coffee table, and he was
gagging and sputtering on a foot-long, purple, slimy thing that was
protruding from his mouth. One bewildered second later, Harry realized
that the foot-long thing was Dudley's tongue . . . .

". . . Far from being reassured [by Mr. Weasley's words], the Dursleys
became more panic-stricken. Aunt Petunia was sobbing hysterically,
tugging Dudley's tongue as though determined to rip it out; Dudley
appeared to be suffocating under the combined pressure of his mother
and his tongue . . . " (GoF Am. ed. 49).

PJ:
Thankyou, I believe you made my point for me very nicely.  First, Harry is 
surprised to see what the candy does to Dudley (and he grew up with 
Muggles!) and secondly the part you neglected to quote was where Mr. Weasley 
explained that it was a "simple engorgement charm" and that he could sort it 
out.  Had the Dursleys not panicked so badly (Petunia probably made things 
worse by yanking Dudley's tongue half out of his head) it would've been 
sorted in a jiffy and, though scary, would not have been dangerous.

Carol:
>However, I've already made my points on Dudley baiting, and I want to
>focus on something else here. You said that "no one has been injured
>by those candies." While that's probably true of the puking pastilles
>and fainting fancies, Katie Bell nearly bled to death when Fred gave
>her the wrong end of a nosebleed nougat (or whatever it was) and had
>to be sent to the hospital wing. And we don't see Fred and George
>testing ton-tongue toffees on first years (fortunately). Dudley
>appears to be the first--and last--victim of this particular candy.

PJ:
You're right... they'd tested the toffees (as well as every other candy 
they've made) on *themselves* which, if they considered them dangerous, 
would've been the last thing they'd have done.  They're not suicidal.

As for Katie Bell, yes that was an error but things like that happen in the 
WW and no one thinks much about it...  For example, Lockhart and the bones 
in Harry's arm.  Madam Pomphrey simply gave him a bone re-growing potion and 
it was all fixed in a couple of days.   No big deal.

I think JKR has, over the last 6 books, gone to great pains to show that 
things in the WW are so very different that we *can't* judge them by our 
society's standards.  It's like comparing apples to coconuts...

PJ