muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 155383

Alla wrote:
> 
> <snip> In the books I am reading yes, the murder of his parents
brought Harry to this fight. But in the books I am reading Harry
fights for protection, for protection of those he loves **and** for
self-protection too of course.
> 
> Although yes, of course vengeance plays a role too, although i would 
> call it justice, not vengeance.

Carol responds:
I would love to agree with you, but his conversation with Dumbledore
about why he should fight Voldemort seems to indicate otherwise.
Self-protection I can see--after all, Voldemort has been after him for
six books, not to mention the attack at Godric's Hollow. But I don't
recall Harry expressing a desire to protect his friends, or the WW,
from Voldemort since SS/PS (before he entered the third-floor to save
the stone from "Snape"), back when he was an innocent child of eleven.
And at the moment, he's certainly intent on vengeance against Snape.
While he is certainly the Chosen One when it comes to Voldemort, I
don't think it's his job, or his destiny, to take vengeance on Snape,
not would it be justice if he did so, even if Snape is evil (which, of
course, you think he is and I don't).

Alla wrote:
> 
> Not to me. Hermione  IMO was right ( although as I said, not 
> perfectly executed too), because  the reason she casted that hex was 
> protection, protection of fellow DA members from treachery. I **so** 
> don't see any vengeance here, but that is JMO.

Carol responds:
Punishing a person for snitching by "horribly disfigur[ing]" her with
the word "SNEAK" across her face, perhaps permanently, isn't
vengeance? How are you defining "vengeance," then?
> 
Alla wrote:
> Montague IMO deserved a bit of suffering because he supported a 
> monster reign over the school ( yes, that is my opinion of dear 
> Dolores Umbridge). Would I support that in RL? Twins issuing the 
> punishment? No, that is not their place, but do I think Montague 
> deserved the punishment for participaing in IS? Yes, I definitely do.

Carol responds:
Montague deserves to be stuck in limbo in a Vanishing Cabinet for
trying to take points from the Twins, who may actually have been
breaking a rule? Granted, they didn't know he would be stuck in a
toilet on the return trip, but they did know he might be unable to
return to Hogwarts for a while--rather like Mad-Eye Moody being
trapped in his own trunk, it seems to me. And you're right; it was not
their place to punish him. The Twins, like the Marauders before them
(especially Sirius), need to start thinking about the potential
consequences of their actions, it seems to me. (And you do believe in
vengeance if you think that Montague deserved to suffer, or that
anyone deserves to suffer.) Montague must have known that Umbridge was
a dictator, but like Draco, he probably disliked Dumbledore and
believed that the school was well rid of the deluded old "Mudblood
lover." He could not have known about her cruel detentions or her
Dementor attack on Harry. I know it's hard, but perhaps we should try
to see things from the Slytherin point of view, which at this point is
being supported by the Daily Prophet and the Ministry.
> 

Alla:
<snip>
> To me there is a huge difference between villains getting their
dues, by any means author thinks possible within the plot and vengeance.
>
Carol:
I see no difference.
 
Alla:
> Although as a reader, I am certainly "bloodfirsty" enough to hope
for  their sufferings, that does not mean that **good guys** in
Potterverse are just as bloodfirsty IMO.

Carol:
"Bloodfirsty"? Am I missing a joke here?

Carol, pretty sure that JKR doesn't believe in vengeance or she'd have
had Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew