[HPforGrownups] Re: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture

[rebecca]

No: HPFGUIDX 155414


> Steven1965aaa wrote:
> <snip>
>> They didn't go after Dudley because he is a muggle, they went after
>> him because he's a prat and a bully himself, he just happened to be
>> a muggle.  That's the difference from the death eaters who levitated
>> those people at the World Cup BECAUSE they were muggles.  Also they
>> have gone after magical prats like Umbrige.  The toffee was comic
>> relief and Dudley deserved it.
>>
> Carol responds:
> Maybe they didn't go after Dudley *because* he's a Muggle, but they
> did go after him *knowing* that he's a Muggle, and that both he and
> his parents would be helpless and terrified.  Whether Dudley deserved
> it or not, it was not their job to punish him--nor did the punishment
> have any permanent effect except to give the Dursleys firmer grounds
> for hating and fearing the WW. It certainly did not improve their
> treatment of Harry.
<snip>

Rebecca now:

"It isn't funny!" Mr. Weasley shouted.  "That sort of behavior seriously 
undermines

wizard-Muggle relations!  I spend half my life campaigning against the 
mistreatment of Muggles,

and my own sons...."

"We didn't give it to him because he's a Muggle!" said Fred indignantly.

"No, we gave it to him because he's a great bullying git," said George. 
"Isn't he, Harry?"


Canon specifies that when Arthur Weasley confronts the Twins after the 
Dursleys and talks about the Twins behavior as "undermining Muggle-wizard 
relations", Fred actually interrupts his father indignantly professing they 
did what they did because Dudley is a "great bullying git" not because he's 
a Muggle. While some may not agree with Fred and George's statements in this 
passage, it's canon and I personally have no reason to doubt it. That said, 
Arthur makes the point JKR intended and what's been widely discussed in this 
thread:  Muggle and wizard relations are tenuous and can be damaged by the 
slightest infraction.

I don't think they "knew" the Dursleys would be helpless and terrified - at 
least I don't see that in canon, nor do I think they thought that far ahead; 
like kids, they act first and think the deep stuff later as maturity sets 
in.  And if I'm not mistaken, the Twins treat Harry as a little brother just 
like Ron, complete with teasing and the support one might come to expect of 
big brothers. They give Harry the map because his need was greater than 
theirs - they didn't expect anything in return from him. Big brothers and 
big sisters typically look out for their younger siblings. I know I did at 
that age, and nobody, but nobody, messed with my sisters or youbetcha, they 
answered to me - whether you think that is right or wrong of me for that, so 
be it.

Sorry, but I'm not relegating Fred and George to the cruel/immoral bucket 
for this when their intent is clear, whether right, wrong or indifferent, in 
canon. Since Harry is the crucial character in these books (it is Harry 
Potter and the "xxxx" after all) and the Twins relationship with him is 
A-ok, I think I'll still like reading about Gred and Forge.

It's like Dumbledore says, sometimes age forgets what youth is like. And 
when young, I think we all implicitly assume we're indestructible and so is 
everybody else, magical or not.

Rebecca