Sorting Hat (was: muggle baiting...)

[houyhnhnm102]

No: HPFGUIDX 155468

houyhnhnm:

> > And when did Gryffindor morph into the House 
> > for those who Do The Right Thing?  That is really 
> > being Gryffindor-centric.

Dung:

> No, absolutely, I didn't mean to imply that (though 
> looking back I realise I may have inadvertantly done so). 
> Sydney was wondering why JKR didn't put the twins in 
> Slytherin, and I suggested that if the sorting hat sort 
> people according to what traits they *prize*, rather 
> than which traits they *have*, it makes more sense. 

houyhnhnm:

I didn't think you meant that.  I was combining my 
replies to you and Magpie into one post, but was too 
lazy to separate them on the page.

I agree that the Hat probably sorts students according 
to the traits they prize. I can't except the idea that 
someone's character is fully formed at the age of eleven. 
And real people are a mixture of traits anyway, as are 
the characters in HP.

Dung:

> Which makes me wonder whether Arthur might have got his 
> point across to the twins better if he'd pointed out that 
> using magic on Muggles is a bit *cowardly*, abusing an 
> advantage like that, particularly with no provocation.

houyhnhnm:

Too bad he didn't think of it, but then none of the adults 
in the WW seem to be very good at getting their points across 
to teenagers.

Marion:

> Red Hen did a wonderful essay on the way the Hat decides 
> which House a kid is Sorted in, the Houses themselves and 
> probes the possibility that the Hat has been tampered with:

houyhnhnm:

I had considered the possibility that the Hat may have 
been tampered with by Tom Riddle, but I think there is 
another way it could have happened.

I do wonder about how and when the Hat was transfigured 
into a magical object.  Was it before or after the split 
between Salazar Slythrin and Godric Gryffindor?  It seems 
to me that a Sorting Hat would not have been needed when 
the school was founded because the founders could have 
used their own judgement to sort students.  It seems 
logical that it was only as they aged and began to 
consider the future of Hogwarts after they were gone, 
that they would have wanted to create the Hat.  
The Hat itself said:

While still alive they did divide
Their favourites from the throng,
Yet how to pick the worthy ones
When they were dead and gone?
'Twas Gryffindor who found the way,
He whipped me off his head
The founders put some brains in me
So I could choose instead!

I have been wondering if this happened after Slytherin 
split from the others.

Rowling has told us that the four Houses correspond to 
the four elements.  I'm not into the occult; I'm not 
looking for some kind of esoteric clue.  What I think 
is important about the classical elements is that in that 
cosmology (which is common to all branches of the occult, 
astrology, tarot, etc.) there is the idea that no element 
is superior to any other.  All four are necessary. Each 
fundamental approach to life represented by the four 
elements is equally capable of being bad or good 
depending on how it is expressed.

She hasn't just told us; she has shown us.  She has even 
shown us the positive side of water (healing power is one 
example).  But from the Hat, all we get of Slytherin 
characteristics is the negative:  "Those cunning folk 
use any means To achieve their ends." And power-hungry 
Slytherin Loved those of great ambition." It sounds like 
a Gryffindor stereotype of Slytherin.

So what I am wondering is if the Hat was created *after* 
Slytherin departed, did the other three founders put into 
it what they *thought* constituted the qualities that 
Slytherin prized and did they get it wrong.