[HPforGrownups] Hermione as a Ravenclaw

[rebecca]

No: HPFGUIDX 155605

> Marion:
> Hermione is not an intellectual in the Ravenclaw sense (and it's not as if
> all Ravenclaws are geniuses; they value learning and knowledge and think
> they are *right* about what they know, even if it's, um, esoteric
> knowledge like the Rotfang Conspiracy) Hermione doesn't read all her books
> because she's so immensly intrigued by the knowledge of how things work
> (if that was true she would have devoured the HBP potions book - instead
> she doggedly follows the faulty instructions of the standard potions book)
> but because she has a deep need to be admired. To be the best. To have
> *adults* acknowledge her as admirable

<snip>


> Hermione is definately a Gryffindor. She wants to be admired. She wants
> people to say about her, "oh, see that girl? She got 12 OWLS and 12 NEWTS
> and they were all O's. She must be the cleverest witch of her age. Let's
> give her a footnote in 'Hogwarts a History.'"

<snip - for details about Ravelclaw and other houses, read upthread>

> No, of course not. Quite apart from the fact that you cannot make such a
> value distinction at age eleven, it is also bollocks. Being brave comes in
> all kind of packages. As does intelligence, cunning or loyalty.
> What the Hat selects for is not what the children *are*, but how they look
> at live and what they want of it.
> If a child wants to be admired, it's a definite Gryff.
> If a child wants to belong, it's a Puff.
> If a child want to be on top, to succeed no matter what the cost, it's a
> Slyth.


Rebecca:

Actually, this is your opinion and should be couched as such, don't you 
think? Personally I'd like some canon references to support your analysis? 
(I'm sorry, but this is something that we do here: explore canon references 
with our interpretations or theories.)  Has JKR stated such things about 
Houses in interviews that we all may have missed which support your view?

WRT to the characteristics of the individual Houses, the only canon that 
explicit I think we've seen thus far is from the Sorting Hat, and that was 
in it's yearly song and not so nearly as detailed as your interpretation - 
which differs from mine.   I think that the character traits/definitions 
you've expressed in your post are generalizations which aren't fully 
supported in canon. For example, Slughorn (who is a past Slytherin) doesn't 
want to be "on top", he wants to orchestrate behind the scenes and he 
appears to have somewhat of a conscience.  In other words, he isn't affected 
as Lord Voldemort is with that nasty uncontrolled ambition. So, this 
generalization may not work when defining House character traits other than 
what we've been provided in canon.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, IMO a person's fears probably say more about them 
than the Houses they're part of do, and Hermoine's fear is *to fail.*  That 
doesn't completely denote *adults* acknowledging her as admirable in my 
mind, just that she be taken respectfully and seriously by *everybody*, 
including adults. The Trio together (hell with that, every kid) wishes that, 
so Hermoine is not alone. In POA, when Dumbledore tells them that the 
Ministry will not take the word of 3 underage wizards when they try to 
explain Sirius & Peter, when Molly doesn't want to allow them to hear about 
the OoP...these are all instances where teenagers want to be taken seriously 
regardless of their age. Voldemort didn't think an underage wizard was worth 
any magical weight, so to speak, and exemplifies this when choosing Draco 
for his mission in HBP (Dumbledore tells Draco in the US version of the book 
that he believes Voldemort probably didn't expect that Draco would succeed); 
Dumbledore says Harry's weight in the cave's boat wouldn't count to 
Voldemort because he was underage. So in effect, the argument Hermoine and 
Gryffindors want to be admired to me just doesn't fit with what you've 
postulated and what's in canon. Draco is a Slytherin and wanted to be 
"validated" too when telling Dumbledore how he was able to get the Death 
Eaters into Hogwarts. Snape is brilliant, more brilliant than Hermoine and 
in fact, can't ever be "wrong" when accusing Harry of all manners of 
infractions.  Under the above definition and view, Snape should have 
immediately been sorted to Ravenclaw, don't pass Go and don't collect your 
Felix :)  He's also described as oddball by Sirius- wouldn't that have made 
him a candidate for Hufflepuff under your definitions?

I think I would modify your thought "what the Hat selects for is not what 
the children *are*, but how they look at live and what they want of it" to 
"what house the Hat allows the children to be sorted to is what they *choose 
to be* at sorting time"  In canon, isn't it choices that determine who we 
are, not our abilities?  One might say the same of House sorting.

Rebecca