Hate crimes (was Re: muggle baiting vs. muggle torture)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 155787

> Betsy Hp:
> Exactly!!!  Yes, yes, yes!!  *Motive*, in this case, is 
> *meaningless*!!!  No one who thinks the twins did a bit of muggle-
> baiting *cares* what the twins feelings were in the matter, we're 
> talking about their *actions*.  (Sorry for the emotion. I feel like 
> this has been stated several times already so I'm very excited that 
> it's finally being understood. <g>)
> 
> The twins don't hate muggles, from everything we're shown.  But in 
> this scene they do take part in Muggle-baiting.

Alla:

Hehe. Well, yes, it is the main disagreement it seems. At the very 
least we do **not** know IMO that in the crime of muggle baiting the 
motive is meaningless.

 
> Betsy Hp:
> How would you feel if the prank played consisted of attaching a 
note 
> saying "Dirty Jew" to the back of that child's shirt?  Would the 
> excuse, "We didn't do it *because* he's a Jew" work for you? IOWs 
if 
> the prank specifically took advantage of the fact that the child is 
> Jewish and the prankers are not, would you still think it okay?  
> Because the twins specifically target the fact that Dudley is a 
> Muggle.  They don't just prank him, they use magic to do so.  And 
> that is what makes Arthur so angry and that is what turns the prank 
> into Muggle-baiting, IMO. 

Alla:

Well, yes of course if there would be the slightest reason to think 
that this child is targeted **because** he is a jew, not just because 
he is a bully, I would be very angry.

But that is my point. I do not see any reason to think that Dudley 
was targeted **because** he was a Muggle, but because he is a bully 
and that does not make me angry at all.

I mean, I understand the criticising of playing a prank per se, but 
**not** playing a prank on Dudley, if that makes sense.

Just as I do not want the bully to get away from the prank just 
because he happens to be a Jew, I don't buy the argument that Twins 
are not allowed to play a prank on Dudley because he happens to be a 
Muggle.

Now, if it was an indication that Dudley was targeted because he was 
a Muggle, that may be a different story. But I do not see it at all.

JMO,

Alla