Whose side are we on?? (was: Arthur right or not? ( was Hate crimes (was Re: muggle baiting v

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 155942

> >>Katie:
> Well, of course there's shades of grey in everyone's personality. 
> And I'm not saying that being a good person means every single    
> action you make is the right one...nor am I saying that bad people 
> always do bad things. And the shades of grey kind of makes my     
> point, actually. Everyone's been debating whether what the twins   
> did was right or wrong...well, of course it is never good to bully 
> people...unless they have it coming. As I see it, that was KARMA. 
> Pure and simple. As was Hagrid giving Dudley the pig's tail in    
> PS/SS, and all the other bad things that happen to bad people.

Betsy Hp:
That's a pretty popular view point.  But for me, it doesn't work.  
As this is a work of fiction it was *incredibly* possible for JKR to 
write her characters *without* the shades of grey.  Like Roald Dahl 
does in his childrens books where the good guys are unquestionably 
the ones you're cheering for, and the bad guys are despicably bad.

But JKR doesn't do this.  She puts in enough for readers to feel a 
twinge of sympathy for her "bad guys".  (Or at least *some* readers. 
<g>  Though even JKR has expressed a bit of pity for Dudley in her 
interviews.)  And then she has her good guys do things that aren't 
really all that good.  Hagrid attacking a child because he's angry 
at the child'd father for example.

And see, I personally have problems with the statement, "well, of 
course it is never good to bully people...unless they have it 
coming."  How do we define if someone "has it coming" or not?  Who 
gets to make that call?  Umbridge certainly thought Harry had the 
blood quill coming.  Filch could probably write *books* on why the 
twins deserved to get whipped.  (Some of the little Slytherin first 
years would probably have a word or two to say on that subject as 
well.)

Sometimes in fiction the call is incredibly easy.  In 
Dahl's "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" the children all seem to 
deserve the fate Dahl writes for them.  But JKR is not that clear, 
and I think that lack of clarity has a purpose.  For example, in GoF 
her first clue that Fake!Moody might not be good is when he abuses 
Draco.  A clue that is beautifully missed because readers tended to 
think Draco got what he deserved.

> >>Katie:
> I don't think that the twins' behavior is at all abnormal for     
> teenage boys, and who says good people have to be perfect all the 
> time?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I don't think anyone is suggesting the good guys have to be good all 
the time.  However, IMO, when a good guy does a bad thing, he or she 
should get called on it.  Especially since we're dealing with 
teenagers who are supposed to be learning from their mistakes.

> >>Katie:
> Look, my point is this, I guess. Whose side are we all on? I mean, 
> we've been debating the twins' behavior, Hermione's behavior(in    
> other threads), and even Dumbledore's behavior!

Betsy Hp:
For me the question is: *Why* are we on this side?  Especially when 
it comes to Harry and company's *private* grudges.  Did Zacherias 
really *deserve* Ginny's attacks?  Did the first year Slytherins 
deserve to be hissed by the twins?  Did Dudley deserve to be hexed 
by Hagrid and fed magic potions by the twins?  Did Marietta deserve 
to be disfigured for so long?  Are those good actions?  Would I 
stand with someone who did those sort of things?

Since, in most cases, my answer is "no", my next question is: Well 
is this accepted as good behavior?  Are the good guys praised for it 
or is this something they need to learn not to do?  I await book 7.

> >>Katie:
> I personally don't want to shred my protagonists to death.

Betsy Hp:
My feeling is, if the protagonists are really good, they'll survive 
it.  And if they're not, better for me to figure it out now.

> >>Katie:
> I love Harry, Hermione, DD, the Weasleys, Lupin, and all the       
> others on *my* side. I do not always *approve* of their           
> behavior...especially when Hermione attacked Ron with the birds in 
> HBP...but I always approve of their overall mission and I believe 
> their hearts and souls are deeply good.

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, see I agree with you about the overall mission.  However I 
don't see that this gives the Order folks a free pass. And 
especially when we have a character telling Harry (and therefore, 
the reader) that the world isn't divided up between good guys and 
Death Eaters, I'm fairly confident JKR writes in the questionable 
behavior to be questioned.  So I question. <g>

Betsy Hp