Whose side are we on??

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 156113

> >>Betsy hp:
> > <snip>
> > But until those changes occur, I just can't rubber stamp         
> > Hermione's  or Harry's or even Ron's point of views. There's too 
> > much that is  questionable there, so I question. <g> Honestly,   
> > I'm betting that  we're supposed to question. I think JKR is    
> > being very sneaky and Harry and  company are quite wrong in some 
> > of their assumptions and  prejudices.

> >>Nikkalmati:
> I have been following with amazement this very long thread and I   
> think the discussion exposes some very different ideas we have of 
> proper human  behavior.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I *totally* agree. Actually, I've seen this in a multitude of 
posts.  And I do agree that I probably see things in a different 
light than JKR does.  I do think I'm harder on the twins (for 
example) than JKR is generally.  (Though I *still* think JKR was up 
to something when she had the prank on Dudley reflected back in 
techno-color by the Death Eaters toying with Muggles themselves.)

> >>Nikkalmati:
>  Yes, the Twins are a bit over the top (and I don't like          
> pranksters in RL, it's just not funny to me), but IMO neither the 
> twins nor  Hermione are on the slippery slope to LV-dom.

Betsy Hp:
I don't think *any* of the characters are in danger of becoming a 
second Voldemort.  Voldemort is far too much a monster, and has been 
since birth, apparently.

But I can see the twins getting involved in something bad -- getting 
in too far over their heads before they know it because of 
money, "fun", etc.

Frankly, Harry and friends have too easy a time of labeling someone 
as "other" and deciding that they are therefore unworthy of common 
human decency.  That's an incredibly dangerous place to be, IMO.

> >>Nikkalmati:
> I have been looking for a  comment that embodies for me what I    
> think JKR is going for here and I think  Katie has it right.  She 
> wants to show kids, good and bad, that you just  can't get away   
> with everything.  Someday some one is going to call you on  it -   
> personally.  Just as the DA members hexed Draco and friends into   
> slugs  and Dursley got his comeuppance.  

Betsy Hp:
Isn't that a double standard though?  Shouldn't the twins get 
*their* comeuppance for what they did to Dudley or Montague?  
Shouldn't the DA kids get their comeuppance for turning Draco and 
Crabbe and Goyle into slugs?

Or have we decided that some of the children in these books aren't 
quite as human as the DA kids or the twins?  *That's* the sort of 
thinking that I find uncomfortable.  And, since JKR makes sure that 
those being "punished" aren't blatently deserving of their fate (at 
least in my opinion) I think she's thinking the same thing.

> >>Nikkalmati: 
> <snip>
> I also think she wants to show that her heroes are human that     
> human emotions  happen and part of maturing is learning how to    
> deal with them. Failing to behave  in a mature manner is          
> not "evil."

Betsy Hp:
But you don't want the good guys to be called on it when they fail 
to "behave in a mature manner", right?  That's what I don't get.  
This idea that because we don't want our heroes to be perfect we 
want them to be praised when they behave badly.  Why?  How is it 
helpful to train the twins and Harry that bullying is a good thing 
as long as you're the bully?  Why is it good for Hermione to feel 
that vengence is good as long she's the one handing out the vengence?

Behaving badly isn't evil, and I don't think anyone has said that 
the "good guys" are actually evil.  However, if they don't ever get 
called on their bad behavior, they could become evil in a Ministry 
sort of way.  So certain of their own goodness they feel anything 
that causes their side to win is okay.  Fortunately, I don't think 
JKR is heading in that particular direction.

Betsy Hp