DD and Draco's murder attempts WAS: Draco and Harry

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 153495

 
> > >>Pippin:
> > ::boggles:: You want the Order to set up its own little relocation 
> > camp?
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Doesn't the Order already have such a thing?  Dumbledore says as 
> much on the Tower to Draco when he's offering the Order's 
> protection.  They have the means to make Draco and his mother 
> effectively disappear, thereby protecting them both from Voldemort.  
> I'm not suggesting Dumbledore do something he'd find abhorent, 
> merely do sooner what he offers to do at the end of the school year.

Pippin:
What Dumbledore would find abhorrent, IMO, is disappearing Draco
against his will without sufficient evidence  that Draco is guilty of
something worse than breaking school rules or imagining that
he could kill Dumbledore.   

Of course if Draco accepted protection, that would be different.  
But what if Draco refused? Even on the Tower, he still dreamed of 
riding the storm.

Draco could have denied everything and  refused Dumbledore's protection 
just as he did with Snape. Then what? Dumbledore can hardly risk that
Voldemort's legilimency will extract this precious secret from Draco.
It would not be good for Voldemort to learn that the Order has been
faking deaths. 

But once Draco assaulted Dumbledore and threatened to kill him
in front of a witness, not to mention confessing his attacks on Katie
and Ron, Dumbledore had both the moral right and the legal means
to make Draco pay for his crimes. 
 
That was why his mercy mattered now. 

> 
> > >>Pippin:
> > Oh dear. I think JKR dealt rather extensively with the problems    
> > of 'protective custody' in OOP...
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Does she?  Is it definitively stated that Dumbledore was *wrong* to 
> keep Sirius protected?  Is it even stated that Dumbledore was doing 
> so against Sirius's will?

Pippin:
Whether it was wrong or not, it was problematic. Even if it was 
right of Dumbledore and Sirius was there of his own will (as I believe
he was) it was still very hard on Sirius. It would have been hard on
Draco and Narcissa, too. They would need all their courage, not
just to accept Dumbledore's offer, but to live with it. We shouldn't
think of it as an easy way out.

> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Dumbledore is perfectly willing to risk the lives of children (and 
> other innocents) to further his own goals.  He'll (apparently, per 
> text) allow a child to enter an arena beyond his skill level that 
> could lead to that child's death.  As a test of character.  I'm 
> fairly sure Amnesty International would not approve.  Neither do I 
> think it'd approve of Dumbledore feeding a suspect truth serum 
> without benefit of counsel.
> 

Pippin:
Movie contamination! In the books, Dumbledore had no choice but
to allow Harry to compete -- remember, he asks for alternative ideas
but despite their evident dislike of the situation, neither Maxime nor
Karkaroff could think of a way to let Harry withdraw.

Barty Jr. was not a suspect. He was a convicted fugitive who had 
already been sentenced to life imprisonment. Four witnesses saw
and heard him attacking Harry. Dumbledore, Head of the 
Wizengamot, authorized the use of veritaserum not to get
evidence, which would not have been admissable in any case
per JKR's website, but in an emergency in order to discover 
how Barty had escaped, what he had done, and whether there
were any other victims who needed help. Crouch 
Sr had disappeared and  was possibly still alive. 

Dumbledore carefully did not seek evidence against Crouch's 
accomplice(s), even to identify Wormtail as Pettigrew. He left that 
to Fudge, and was furious when Fudge let Crouch be demented.


> > >>Pippin: 
> > Trusting Snape would be arbitrary, because though Dumbledore
> > trusts Snape to be honest with him, he does *not* trust Snape
> > to interpret evidence correctly.
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Was Draco's role as Dumbledore's assassin supposed to be a mystery 
> to Dumbledore?  I never got that sense.  The text seems to support 
> Dumbledore knowing that Draco had been given the mission by 
> Voldemort and why.  I never got the sense that Dumbledore was 
> confused about who sent the cursed necklace, or that he questioned 
> what Snape told him.

Pippin:
Snape's report from Spinner's End only established that Draco had a 
motive. If Snape asserted anything further, Snape fashion, "Draco
did it, I KNOW HE DID!" <g> it would be arbitrary of Dumbledore to 
accept Snape's assertions as proof when he has discounted them
so many times.

In the absence of proof that Harry *meant* to endanger other 
students, (as Snape has many times asserted that he did)
Dumbledore allowed Harry to endanger other students and yet 
remain at Hogwarts, because Harry needed the protection of 
Hogwarts to survive. The *only* thing that makes that fair is that
Dumbledore would grant the same degree of protection to the 
other students if they needed it.  As Draco did.

> 
> > >>Pippin:
> > Even as a practical matter, putting Draco in custody wouldn't have
> > protected the students. It was Dumbledore's location, not Draco's,
> > that made Hogwarts a target. Draco could have continued his 
> > mission, or rather his feeble but dangerous attempts at it,  
> > from anywhere. 
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I don't think I understand what you're saying here.  If Draco was 
> removed from Hogwarts, the students of Hogwarts would still be in 
> danger from him?  How?
> 

Pippin:
Draco, by means of the enchanted coins, ordered Rosmerta to give
Katie the package (for Dumbledore, I suppose) and poison Slughorn's
mead, which she thought was intended for Dumbledore. Draco could
have carried out these plans from the Malfoy manor just as easily,
or even from Grimmauld Place, provided the coins were not discovered.

Indeed he would have more incentive to do so, since fixing the
vanishing cabinet would no longer be an option. 

The attacks did not take place at Hogwarts because Draco was there.
They took place at Hogwarts because *Dumbledore*  was there. 

And *that* my friends, is why Dumbledore was planning to fake his
death. Though the whole wizarding world regarded him as the talisman
whose presence kept Hogwarts safe, Dumbledore knew that this was
no longer true. Voldemort was not afraid to face him any more.

The Draco plot was just a feint, but  Dumbledore knew that sooner or later 
Voldemort would move against him in earnest.  Dumbledore needed
to give up his post, but how could he, without seeming to desert it?

Pippin