Karma, Umbridge, etc. (Re: Snape and the "Chosen One")

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 153497

Lupinlore:
> 
> So far so good, but the part about them having "abused other people to 
> a far worse extent" than Harry seems kind of problematic, at least 
> with regard to Umbridge.  With the Dursleys we have Dudley and JKR's 
> statement, although I'm not so sure that statement is as clear as you 
> imply (i.e. I recall that she said Dudley had been abused "in some 
> ways as badly" as Harry, not that he had clearly been abused much 
> worse).  

Pippin:

"The best that can be said is that at least he has escaped the appalling
damage you have inflicted on the unfortunate boy sitting between you."
<snip> Dudley was frowning slightly, as though he was still trying to
work out whether he had ever been mistreated.  -HBP ch 3

That has the feel of another shoe waiting to drop. What could be worse
for Vernon and Petunia than to be rejected at long last by Dudley? It
would be far more painful than anything that Dumbledore or Harry could
do.

Lupinlore:
In the case of Snape, I'm also not at all sure that's true.  
> Snape has committed crimes and evil acts (treachery and murder) but 
> I'm not sure that he's abused anyone worse than he's abused Harry, 
> unless you want to say that murder is a form of abuse, in which case 
> under that definition you would be right.

Pippin:
If you are right about Snape, then he has taken advantage of Dumbledore's
doting trust to steal his secrets, betraying and finally murdering him
just as Tom Riddle did with Hepzibah -- that's elder abuse, right? 

But as you know I disagree with you about Snape. Maybe what happens
is that Snape and Harry  realize that while they were tossing insults
and curses at one another, Dumbledore was dying only yards away, and
if only they had ever come to trust one another, as Dumbledore never
lost hope they would do, they might have saved him. If Snape is DDM!
he will feel as bad about that as anyone could hope.

It is not Harry's fault that Snape took against him. But Harry has inherited
his father's wealth and good name. I am certain that if James had lived,
he would have used those resources to make amends to Snape, and that 
Harry will feel that he has some obligation there for Dumbledore's sake.

Lupinlore:
> But when we get to Umbridge, we have a big problem with canon being 
> clear about her "abusing other people to a much greater extent" than 
> she abuses Harry.  Who would that be, exactly?  Who has she abused 
> worse than she abused Harry, and what exactly did she do to them?  
> What has she done that is clearly worse and more deserving of 
> punishment than what she did to Harry?


Pippin:
The anti-werewolf legislation has resulted in werewolves,
and we know there are child werewolves, being pushed to the margins
of wizarding society, where they are forced to steal, and sometimes
kill, to eat.  Let's see, character assassination plus the quill, versus
character assassination plus exile and starvation.  I'll take the 
quill, thank you. But you don't have to take my word for it. Harry
considers running away from Hogwarts, and decides he'll stay even
with Dolores in charge. 

Dear Dolores is referred to as a 'hag' at least six times in OOP.
If she escapes being torn apart by werewolves, perhaps she'll be
outed as what she would call a half-breed and forced to live
under her own laws.

Pippin