DD and Draco's murder attempts WAS: Draco and Harry

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 153521

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > So yeah, Dumbledore's actions are often foolish and inexcusable  
> > (or cold-hearted and manipulative) in real life.  But in this    
> > sort of book, they're par the course.  Unfortunately, I think    
> > JKR tries to have her cake and eat it too, and the logic of     
> > Dumbledore's character suffers for it.

> >>Lupinlore:
> Okay, I'll bite.  In what way do you see JKR as trying to have her 
> cake and eat it too with DD?  Myself, I think most of the problem 
> comes from the "epitome of goodness" comment.  That creates an     
> immense tension which fuels much of the DD argument.  I wonder if, 
> given the chance to give that interview again, JKR would phrase   
> things the same way?

Betsy Hp:
Oh yes, JKR can *really* stick her foot in her mouth with her 
interviews.  And this comment is one of the doozies.  A Dumbledore 
that seems to willingly decide which student is worthy of his 
protection (at the cost of the other students) is hard to squeeze 
into the "epitome of goodness" mode.

Unless, you allow Dumbledore to hit a level so far above the rest of 
the Potterverse characters he can see Ron's death being a lesser 
evil than Draco becoming bad.  Which, I *can* see Dumbledore 
deciding. It's the same Dumbledore who decides to entice Harry into 
the gauntlet in PS/SS.  And the same Dumbledore who sends baby!Harry 
to live with the Dursleys.

But that Dumbledore seems to clash with the man keeping the prophecy 
a secret from Harry merely to allow Harry his boyhood, no matter 
that it screws with all of his well laid plans.  Why would the same 
man who nearly killed Harry at age 11 so he could check out his 
character, *cry* because Harry's got a big burden on his shoulders?

> >>Pippin:
> What Dumbledore would find abhorrent, IMO, is disappearing Draco
> against his will without sufficient evidence that Draco is guilty 
> of something worse than breaking school rules or imagining that
> he could kill Dumbledore.

Betsy Hp:
I still don't see that Dumbledore had any question about who was 
behind the cursed necklace finding its way into Katie Bell's hands.  
The harsh part *would* be the fact that by merely questioning Draco, 
Dumbledore would have broken Draco's cover. For which Voldemort 
would have killed him.  So Draco wouldn't have had much of a choice.

Which *is* abhorrent to Dumbledore, yes.  Even more abhorrent than 
putting his student's lives at risk.  Dumbledore would risk almost 
*anything* to allow Draco the room to choose.  But I don't think 
it's the sort of freedom most headmasters would allow their 
students.  Physical safety over existential crisis. <g>

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> Whether it was wrong or not, it was problematic. Even if it was
> right of Dumbledore and Sirius was there of his own will (as I    
> believe he was) it was still very hard on Sirius. It would have   
> been hard on Draco and Narcissa, too. They would need all their   
> courage, not just to accept Dumbledore's offer, but to live with   
> it. We shouldn't think of it as an easy way out.

Betsy Hp:
I'm not.  I recognize that taking such an action against Draco would 
have severely harmed him.  But, it was the easier option for the 
rest of the student body.  Which is why, I think, most headmasters 
would have gone in that direction.  The needs of the many, etc., etc.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > He'll (apparently, per text) allow a child to enter an arena    
> > beyond his skill level that could lead to that child's death. As 
> > a test of character.
> > <snip>

> >>Pippin:
> Movie contamination! In the books, Dumbledore had no choice but
> to allow Harry to compete... <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oops!  Sorry, I was unclear.  I was talking about Dumbledore 
allowing Harry to drop down into the gauntlet in PS/SS.  If Harry 
had been alone he'd have died at the first challenge.  Ron nearly 
did die, and Harry ended the adventure with a three day (IIRC, multi 
day, anyway) coma.

For a very long time I've had a brilliant and thoroughly logical 
theory about PS/SS that Explained It All (tm).  However, the fact 
that Dumbledore has never corrected Harry's belief that Dumbledore 
sent him on that "little adventure", the fact that this was a 
conversation that could have easily taken place in OotP, and the 
fact that Dumbledore is dead (or mostly dead, depending on 
theories), suggests that my own theory, brilliant though it may have 
been, is not the real deal.

So, I've been forced to reexamine the character of Dumbledore with 
the realization that he will allow students to die if it furthers 
the cause of good.  Not a fun exercise.

(Though, hey, if someone wants to sell me a "Bestest Healer Ever!" 
Snape to counteract the "I'll Let Students Die to Save a Soul!" 
Dumbledore, you'll find me a wide-eyed and easily swayed buyer.  
Anyone? <g>)

Betsy Hp