Baptism/Christianity in HP: was Looking for God in Harry Potter

[Randy]

No: HPFGUIDX 153675

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "leslie41" <leslie41@> 
> wrote:
> >> 
> > See it or don't.  It doesn't mean it's not there.
> 
> 
> Tonks:
> I agree with Leslie. 
> 
> First let me say that I have no investment in JKR being a 
Christian. 
> She could be anything, I don't care.  I also have no investment in 
> finding Christian symbols in the HP books.  I really don't care if 
> they are there or are not there.  It makes no difference to me. 
> Honesty it doesn't.  I did not start reading the books looking for 
> them.  They just jumped out at me. I tripped over then right and 
> left.  
> 
> I know that we as a group argue over this issue every time it 
comes 
> up. I think what the problem is here is that some of us see 
symbols 
> that we recognize as explicitly Christian. Now that can occur as a 
> coincidence in a work of this size, but when it occurs over and 
over 
> one has to stop and ask "why?, What is the author doing?" And I 
> don't think any of us has an answer to that. But we see 
*something* 
> going on beneath the surface.  

SNIP
SNIP
.
> 
> Others say that the association is not there because they are 
> looking for something within the story that fits the symbols.  
Well 
> sometimes there is a direct relationship and sometimes there is 
not. 
> SNIP
SNIP
. Problem is we don't know what she 
> is doing, but she is doing something with these symbols. They are 
> not just hanging there for no reason. They are pointing to 
> something.  They are leading to something.  It drives me crazy 
> because I see the symbols all over the place, knowing that JKR 
must 
> have some reason to put them in there, but it is like a puzzle 
with 
> a few pieces missing. (It is like the framework of a house, you 
> don't *see* it when you look at the house because it is deep 
within. 
> It is in the blueprints.) 
> 
> SNIP
SNIP

> All I am trying to say is that like all the other clues in the 
books 
> there are these clues as well that many people would overlook or 
not 
> understand.  I don't know *why* they are there.  But I can not 
deny 
> the fact that they *are* there.  I see them just as clearly as my 
> friend saw Lupin=wolf. 
> 
> Tonks_op
>

RANDY  adds some thoughts...

I never associated Christian symbolism when I first read the books 
because I was caught up in the excitement of the stories.  Upon 
reading the books for a second time, I started to notice some 
interesting things.  I once pointed out the idea of seven books 
dealing with the Seven Deadly Sins as themes.  I think these themes 
are only part of the puzzle.  A really interesting writer has many 
different themes (ideas) going on at the same time.  You may see 
things but can't quite put your finger on it.

I think most would see Harry Potter's connection to the stories of 
brave knights who must slay the dragons.  Knights and Dragons are 
obviously mentioned in the stories.  Knights lived by codes of 
ethics which derived from Christian principles.  Overcoming the 
seven deadly sins is part of this.  If you are a "nominal Christian" 
Knight (to use someone else's language), you might strive to 
overcome the 7 deadlies without completely grasping the Christian 
religious beliefs.  

Given my speculations above, here are some examples.  

OOP deals with Anger.  If you read the book looking for anger, it 
hits you with every chapter.  Someone is always angry at someone 
else.  Harry gets mad at Dumbledore. Snape and Sirius argue. 
Everyone is mad at Umbridge.  Umbridge is mad at Dumbledore.  Anger 
is like a stupid violent Giant that destroys things in its path 
without realizing its own strength. Grawp is introduced in this 
book.  The fifth task at the end of Philosopher's stone is sneaking 
past a sleeping troll.  I think the anger within us is a sleeping 
troll which should not be awakened. Interestingly enough, OOP made a 
lot of fans very angry!;0)

GOF deals with Lust(or Infatuation).  The students start to see the 
opposite sex for the first time.  The handsome strong men of 
Durmstrang and the beautiful women of Beaux Batons are introduced.  
The famous Triwizard Ball and all of its melodrama are part of this 
theme.  Harry has feelings for Cho Chang and feels jealous of 
Cedric.  Ron has hidden feelings for Hermione and feels jealous of 
Victor Krum.  The Second Triwizard task forces Cedric to save Cho 
Chang and Victor to save Hermione from the underwater trap.  This 
reminds me of the stories where the hero saves the fair maiden.  
Harry is still a little young and confused and Ron is still his most 
valued connection.  Interestingly enough, GOF made a lot of fans 
start writing about relationships!;0)

HBP deals with Gluttony (or overindulgence).  Slughorn drinks too 
much and eats too much and has too many parties.  Trelawney drinks 
too much.  Harry overindulges in his use of the HBP's potion book.  
Ron overindulges in snogging with Lavendar.  Hepzibzah Smith 
overindulges in knick knacks.  Dumbledore is forced to drink too 
much from the green bowl in the Cave.  We learn about Gulp-a- lots 
Law of Potion making.  Luckily, Harry drinks only a small portion of 
Felix Felicis and shares the rest with his friends later.  He has 
learned the lesson not to overindulge.  I guess everyone will start 
drinking heavily now because we don't like the Horcrux plotline!;0)

POA deals with Sloth (Wasting Time).  Lupin teaches Harry to 
overcome his fears which prevent him from taking action.  The 
prisoner is freed because Harry takes action to stop the Dementors.  
Dementors suck out souls (or you could say they drain people of 
their will to live).  If you could only turn back time and take 
action, you could save the hypogriff and Sirius Black.  Why you can 
turn back time if you have a time turner!  Hermione and Harry are 
able to take action and save the day.  Just like the third task at 
the end of Philosopher's stone; Harry takes flight and grabs the 
winged key.  He unlocks the door to free the prisoner inside.  He is 
not wasting time and he is taking action! Interestingly enough, the 
fans started taking action and buying lots of Harry Potter books and 
writing posts on the Internet! ;0)

The Christian church does not have a monopoly on the Seven Deadly 
Sins, but they do educate their members to be aware of them and take 
action against them.  Other religions do the same.  JKR is not 
giving a sermon to the followers of (fill in blank).  I think she is 
speaking subliminally to millions of children around the world about 
good behavior and bad behavior because she is somehow destined to do 
this!  Maybe it is her calling in life.  If everyone had an 
opportunity to speak to so many people, we would all be alot 
happier.  Until the church members down the street start to call us 
names and protest against us!  She must know how Joan of Arc felt by 
now.

Randy gets of the soapbox and starts running before all the tomatoes 
start to fly!