Baptism/Christianity in HP

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 153715

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Tonks" <tonks_op at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister" 
> <gbannister10@> wrote:
> 
> > Speaking as a Christian I think that we need to be careful about 
> how we expect people of different denominations to interpret 
> something such as baptism. 
> > The suggestion has been made that baptising a child with holy 
> water seems to leave some sort of "imprint" (for want of a better 
> word).
> > In the UK, the only denominations who are likely to use holy water 
> in the first place are Catholics and high Anglican churches. (Snip)
> > Baptism merely marks the bringing of a child into the church to 
> ask for God's blessing on that child; that he or she will be guided 
> by those around them and that they might gain real faith as they 
> grow. It does not make a person a Christian.

Tonks:
> It is true that the child, once of age, has to publically affirm 
> their faith, which is what confirmation is about. However baptism in 
> the Anglican church, which I suspect that JKR may be have in her 
> mind as a model, is more than a dedication of the child.
> 
> The rubrics (instruction) for Baptism as found in the Episcopal Book 
> of Common Prayer (1976) used in the Episcopal (Anglican) (both high 
> and low) church in the U.S. says:
> 
> "Holy Baptism is full initiation by water and the Holy Spirit into 
> Christ's body the Church. The bond which God establishes in Baptism 
> is indissoluble."

Geoff:
The BOCP almost seems to suggest that the vows made by the godparents 
are speaking as the child, which seems to suggest that a person can 
vicariously become a Christian. In fact, some of the wording implies that 
the ceremony of receiving the child into the Christian church is indissoluble 
which seems to contradict the need for the infant to later affirm their faith 
by Confirmation.

One of the most frequently quoted sayings of Christ is "For God so loved 
the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him 
shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16 New International Version). 
The person seeking God has to believe for themselves. Not have someone 
else believe for them.

A believer has to be able to understand what the commitment they are 
making is about, and make the choice freely for themselves. The choice 
cannot be made irrevocably for them by someone else. In Wizarding World 
terms, we are back to Dumbledore's comment at the end of COS.

I stand by my comment quoted above that infant baptism per se does not 
make a person a Christian.