[HPforGrownups] Why we're sure that Snape is Evil

[Leeloo Volusia]

No: HPFGUIDX 153848

chrusotoxos <chrusokomos at gmail.com> wrote:          
> Hi again, I'm still thinking about Snape, as are many of you it 
> seems :D  I have been convinced for ages that he was good, and 
> still wish to, but I think I've found what it took to bring me on 
> the Snape-is-evil side.
>
> Oh, I'm quoting the Bible a lot: just wanted to specify that I'm 
> not a Christian, but as JKR is and speaks a lot of 'redemptive 
> pattern', 'you'll see my faith in the books' etc it seemed right to 
> quote it.
>
> Please consider this:
>
> 1. Harry must overcome LV through love (said again and again 
> throughout all books)
<end snip>

Leeloo:
I was watching PoA for the billionth time and it occurred to me that perhaps what this means is that Harry's power is drawn from his love for his friends.  What made me think this?  The scene with the Patronus.  Harry's patronus was incredibly strong and pushed back many Dementors.  Why did it do this?  Because of Harry's love for Sirius.  This is why I believe Harry, Hermione, or Ginny will be hurt or even die to bring out Harry's strength through his love.

chrusotoxos:
> 2. Harry hates him
>
> 3. Harry next hates: Snape ("almost as much"), Draco Malfoy, Peter 
> Pettigrew, the Dursleys and of course the DE in general - but at 
> the end of Book 6, nothing can rival his hatred for Snape
<end snip>

Leeloo:
Okay, did you see how many times you reference hate?  Perhaps the redemptive quality JKR refers to is really Harry's redemption.  At the end of HBP, I couldn't help but remark at the level of hatred that consumed Harry.  He was being driven by his hatred of LV and Snape and Malfoy and as far as I could tell, it was really getting him nowhere.  I think his motivation has to change in order for him to be successful.
 
chrusotoxos:
> 4. If Harry must win through love, to me it means that he has to 
> understand and pity LV, in a perfect exemple of 'praying for your 
> enemy' Christian moral
> 
> 5. Pitying LV is difficult
<end snip>

Leeloo:
I never thought of Harry having to "pity" LV.  I always thought it would be more along the lines of Harry ultimately forgiving LV for the death of his parents.  Maybe if Harry lets go of his hate and embraces the "divine" trait of forgiveness, this will render LV powerless and therefore defeated.  Maybe I mean this more in the philosophical sense than in the actual way she will write the scene, but I think that will be the moral behind the story.
 
chrusotoxos:
> 6. As a cunning writer, why don't give Harry a little help to feel 
> pity and compassion for his enemy? After all, if Harry can pity 
> Snape, he can afterwards pity and understand LV
<end snip>

Leeloo:
Again, I don't think "pity" is the right word.  And perhaps Harry has to forgive Snape for killing DD (or whatever it was that he did), and not being honest with his intentions, for lying to him and the Order.  I believe Snape is the one who reported part of the prophecy to LV, so perhaps Harry has to forgive Snape for that act and finally realize that Snape has spent the remainder of his life trying to make up for that.

chrusotoxos:
> 7. Harry can do it, because he's a nice boy: he already felt sorry 
> for Snape once (Book 5)
>
> 8. Now, if we accept all this, what good is there in forgiving a 
> good man who made a mistake? We're all capable of that: as Jesus 
> said, we must instead pray for our enemies, because the sick man 
> needs the doctor, not the healthy one
<end snip>

Leeloo:
Well, I personally don't think Snape is the one needing forgiveness from Harry.  His ultimate mission is Voldemort. So, I really don't consider Harry's feelings of Snape that huge of a factor in determining if Snape is good or bad.
 
chrusotoxos:
> 9. Therefore, somewhere towards the end of Book 7, Harry meets 
> Snape - a man evil and unrepented, and a man Harry has a billion 
> reasons to hate - and, instead of killing him straightforward, he 
> forgives him, and thus vanquish him
<end snip>

Leeloo:
Again, I see this as Harry's mission for LV, not Snape.

chrusotoxos:
> 10. Snape thus a) goes to prison, b) escpaes, c) is killed by 
> someone else, d) kills himself
> 
> 11. Harry has understood the full power of love, and can now meet 
> LV fearless
> Ok, so here it is. What's your opinion?
<end snip>

Leeloo:
I see your logic and from where you drew your conclusions, but I personally don't think Snape will play that big of a role in Harry finding his love and then moving on to defeat Voldemort.  I really think Ron, Hermione or Ginny will fall into that role or roles.
 
 ~ Leeloo