Choice and Essentialism (was:Re: Understanding Snape)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 153909

> Betsy Hp:
> I disagree. <g>  I don't think JKR has drawn up a largely 
> essentialist world.  If that were the case I don't think we'd have 
> long discussions under the Sorting Hat.  There wouldn't be the 
option 
> of picking a way to go.  The path would already be set.

Alla:

I would not say that JKR completely denies choice, but yes, I do 
think that who person IS plays a very large part in Potterverse.

Betsy Hp: 
> Here's the text under discussion:
> "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more 
than 
> our abilities." [SS paperback p.333]
> 
> I don't think Dumbledore was trying to say that people are who they 
> are, and we can merely discover their true character by looking at 
> their choices. 

Alla:

I think that is exactly what he says here. I mean, why would not he 
say then - our choices MAKE us who we are.


Betsy Hp:
 That would suggest that the choices weren't real.  The 
> essence of someone's personality wouldn't allow the luxury of 
choice.  

Alla:

I see it as that the essence of your personality will direct your 
choices if that makes sense at all.


Betsy Hp:
> And Dumbledore does seem to feel that there were opportunities that 
> Tom Riddle missed, bad choices made.  Which suggests that 
Dumbledore 
> felt Tom did have a chance to *choose* a different path.

Alla:

Where does he say that? Honestly don't remember. We see Tom Riddle 
who was bad since he was very young, no?

What choices he missed at such young age? I mean, it is nature v 
nurture never ending debate, and of course I think that the fact that 
he  did not grow up normally, hopefully played the part, but don't 
you think that it can be argued just as easily that Gaunts "bad 
genes" played the most important part in Tom's personality 
development?

Betsy Hp:
> IOWs, *choice* is important.  It's not merely a clue into someone's 
> character (though it *is* that, of course).  But, most importantly, 
> it's an opportunity for a character to decide who they are. 

Alla:

Of course choice is important, it is just I think that in Potterverse 
it is an opportunity for character to show who they are, not exactly 
decide who they are. Although at the same time, I won't dispute that 
JKR gives her characters room for change of their personalities, but 
how much? And what comes first? Personality change or the choice 
which will force one to change?

Besides Tom Riddle, we have Duddley Dursley whom JKR seems to be 
hinting at having a bad personality at what, year and a half? What 
choices did he miss making?

"And they've got his son - I saw him kicking his mother all the way 
up the street, screaming for sweets." - PS/SS, p.13.

I mean, of course we don't see Dudley dear murdering anyone here, but 
I also think it is a pretty safe bet that this is a foreshadowing of 
his personality, no?

We also have Harry, I mean, yes, yes, kids who grew up with guardians 
like Dursleys do turn out as good kids, but even though I hate to 
make such generalizations, I do think it would be more typical for 
Harry to exhibit different personality after growing up with 
Dursleys, so why? I want to say that the year and a half with loving 
parents played important role, but choices? 

Betsy Hp:
 That's 
> why we have the evil side (Voldemort) trying to take away a 
person's 
> ability to choose, and it's why we have the good side (Dumbledore) 
> giving as much opportunity as possible for a person to make a free 
> choice.

Alla:

Are you sure though that Dumbledore's primary concern is to give 
characters free choices or is his mainly concern is to try to change 
of who they are, sort of, their beliefs, etc? I am not sure of the 
answer myself, but just consider . How much choice DD wants Sirius to 
have when he makes him sit in the House in OOP? Yes, DD wants Sirius 
to be alive, etc,etc, but is that what Sirius would have chosen? I 
doubt it personally.

How much choice DD gives Remus when he sends him to spy on 
werewolves? Yes, Remus does it as a dutiful soldier, but doesn't he 
sound a bit bitter to you when he tells it to Harry.

How much choice Dumbledore gives Harry when he stuck him with 
Dursleys?

Does he give him ANY choice at all?

Dumbledore does what he feels is right, what he thinks IMO other 
characters would also consider right and they do so, either for that 
reason or because they have faith in Dumbledore.

But of the top of my head, I honestly don't think that Dumbledore is 
overly concerned with giving others free choice, more like that doing 
what's right over what's easy.

But who decides what's right? Dumbledore himself, IMO for the most 
part, that is why he is JKR moral compass?

 
> Betsy Hp (writing tired, don't try this at home... wait, I *am* at 
> home... oh dear)
>

Alla:

Sorry.

JMO,

Alla, babbling one.