Christian themes in DD's death(was:Book 7, Dumbledore)

[Tonks]

No: HPFGUIDX 154085

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Kathryn Lambert 
<anigrrrl2 at ...> wrote:
>
> Tonks:
> >>> <snip> (Since I have said that the COS was the tomb of Christ,
> and I see DD as a symbol of Christ, to me it ties together. And I
> think that JKR meant to tie those two images together in that
> moment.) <snip> Since I think that DD is a Christ figure I do think
> that we will see him again. <<<
> 
>   Barbara Kraus wrote:
> >> I think this is a wonderful story and a world I would like to
> enter...but do you really think that J.K. Rowling was trying to
> write in parallels to the Bible? I think you do a disservice to
> her... The Harry Potter stories are so well-written - <snip> -
> when I read the biblical comparisons here, I can only think...oh,
> please. Give me a break. <<
> 

Tonks:
The HP stories are very well written indeed. And I think you do a 
disservice to JKR by suggesting that she is not able to write a 
story with depth to it that touches on the great mysteries of the 
human race, including human spirituality.  

> Katie:
> I have to agree with Barbara. I think that reducing great 
literature to Bible allegory fails to see the beauty of the story 
itself. 

Tonk:
I don't think that seeing subplots or subliminal story 
lines "reduces" the story. I think that it expands the story. Seeing 
only what is on the surface IMO is what "reduces" the story.  The HP 
story convey deep truths about the human condition, it is not just a 
nice little "story" for the kiddies.


> Katie:
> I feel (in my opinion) that people who try to see Christian
> stuff in HP are in some way assuaging some misplaced guilt about
> being Christian and reading about witches. It just isn't there! 
There is no Christian allegory in HP. (snip)> I just don't 
understand why everything has to relate to religion! I
> am a pretty faithful pagan, and I don't relate everything I do, 
read, or see to my religion.
> 

Tonks:
I take personal offense to the suggestion that I look for Christian 
symbols in the books to "assuage my guilt".  I have no guilt. I do 
not read the books looking for excuses to read them as if I were 
some child afraid of offending "mommy".  I read any book that I want 
to read.  My Church does not banned books.  (We are the ones that 
say `God gave you a mind and He expects you to use it'.) I read 
books that DD would never allow in Hogwarts, real books about real 
occult practices of the Dark Arts.   And you think I am worried 
about reading a children's books about witches????

I don't "relate everything I do, read, or see to my religion" 
either. But when an author has hinted and implied as JKR has on 
numerous occasions that she is doing something in the books 
pertaining to her religion (She is Christian) and that she can not 
tell us about it until the final book is published, it is pretty 
hard to put blinders on and pretend that it isn't there.    

Katie:
>   Now, I am also a fan of the Narnia series, which is a well-known
> and purposeful allegory to the Bible, but the story of Narnia can
> also be read without looking for Christian themes, and still be a
> wonderful and magical story. Can't we all just read HP for what it
> is? - a fantastical and magical and unique work of literature 
(snip> 

Tonks:
The Narnia series is an allegory, and why it is perfectly OK to read 
it as just an enjoyable story you can not just wish away the basic 
intent of the author, or tell others who do see the author's intent 
that they are just imagining it. 

The HP series IMO is not an allegory like Narnia.  JKR has a 
subliminal story running under the surface and she does some unique 
things with symbolism.  If you don't see it, that is fine.  But when 
the final book is written and JKR tells what she has done, if she 
proves me wrong, no big deal.  I will still love and treasure the 
books.  On the other hand if JKR says that she has used symbols and 
ideas from Christianity in the constructions of her books, I suspect 
that some here will burn them or use them for mulch.  Such is the 
bias that I hear voiced here against the very *idea* that there 
could be anything that looks like Christianity in the books.  

Katie:
>   Please, no offense meant, just not getting the whole Christian
> theme.
> 
> Peace, Katie
>

Tonks:
And peace by with you. ;-) 

I wish we could all be open minded here.  Everyone is IMO free to 
say what they see or think about the series.  I think that JKR has 
pulled from many, many sources.  Why limit our search to only a few 
at the exclusion of others?  Just because the Christians on this 
list point out the Christian symbols in the series does not mean 
that we think that this is *all* there is to the series. One of my 
areas of expertise just happens to be Christian theology so 
naturally that is what I write about the most. Others have their own 
areas of expertise.  Each of us has something to contribute to the 
understanding of this phenomenal work of art by a very talented 
author.  All I ask is that we can explore it openly, deeply, 
thoroughly, and in the spirit of peace.  You know, like that 
fountain in the MoM.  But unlike the fountain which does not really 
portray the WW as it is, let the fountain's symbolism be our reality.

Tonks_op