Rereading SS/PS question(s) / Harry's protections

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 154091

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
<dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > bboyminn:
> <SNIP>
> > It is entirely possible that the people Harry did encounter
> > were members of the Order who would have had more 
> > information. Indeed they may have actually been sent on 
> > occassion to check up on Harry for Dumbledore. Invisibly,
> > of  course, as we see in OotP. So, when they happen to run
> > into Harry on other occassions, they knew who he was.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, it is possible. The only thing is they did not do it 
> invisibly. That is strange to me.
> 

bboyminn now:

We have some time confusion here. Note I said when they happen
 to run into Harry on OTHER OCCASSIONS, they knew who he was. 

Further on those occassion when they were checking up on Harry,
whether invisible or not, they were not guarding him as they 
were in OotP. They were simply making a reconnoissance of 
Harry's general well being. Regardless of whether they 
encountered Harry on their own or while on duty, I think they
felt a deep dept as well as a certain affection that they 
couldn't resist acknowledging.

Now you can argue whether Dumbledore should have place him 
there, and whether later he should have kept Harry there, 
but the fact remains that Dumbledore thought Privet Drive 
was the safest place and the protection of blood was the 
strongest protection. On those occassions when he received 
reports that Harry's life was generally unpleasant, he just 
reminded himself that Harry was safe, and in the moment that
was the most important thing.

So, my point is, not everyone is working from the same set of
knowledge, and those who acknowledge Harry, may have actually
known who he was, or they may have just made a lucky guess. 
There are probably several little dark haired boys with a scar
on their face scattered about the UK who have had odd strangers
wave at them, who in fact were merely mistaken for Harry. We 
can't assume everyone in the story is working from the knowledge
we have.

> bboyminn:
> <SNIP>
> > I think more important for Death Eaters would be a general 
> > underlying subliminal fear of Harry. As an infant he 
> > survived an AK from the darkest and most powerful of Dark
> > Wizards. That wouldn't encourage others to attempt to harm
> > Harry. ...
> > 
> > Those Death Eaters who were free knew they had escaped 
> > capture by the skin of their teeth. Further they knew that 
> > they no longer had the 'biggest bully on the block' there 
> > to protect them. I think most, inthat moment, preferred to
> > count themselves luck and fade into the background. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Um, doesn't this argument leads us into Dumbledore's strange
> choices again?
> 
> If DE were SO very afraid of Harry and preferred to stick to
> the background, what ARE the chances that they would actually
> attack Harry and then of course the same question arises 
> whether DD REALLY needed to stick Harry at Dursleys?
> 

bboyminn now:

Again, we have time confusion. What is likely to happen months
and years later, is quite different from what one might 
speculate could happen in the hours, days, and weeks immediately
after Voldemort's disappearance.

Those few days and weeks immediately after Voldemort's defeat 
were a very unknow period. Would Dark Wizards seek revenge? 
Would the bide their time or strike immediately? It was in 
this dark period of great uncertainty that Dumbledore was 
forced to make his decision. 

I think many DE's like Lucius did their best to recover and
disassociate themselves from Voldemort. We know many suspected
DE's claimed bewitchment as a way of covering their deeds. They
certainly would not want to rock the boat since huge suspicions
were already cast on them.

Other DE's were more ruthless and could care less about public
preception. The classic example is the attack on the Longbottoms
which came a year after the initial attack on Harry, and was 
cold and heartless. So, Dumbledore was worried about both the 
immediate and the slightly longer term protection of Harry.

So, Dumbledore's preception of the potential for trouble was 
very real, and I think, bad as it was, he made the right choice.

> Alla continues:
>
> Isn't it trying to have your cake and eat it too on 
> Dumbledore's  behalf? If it was essential for Harry's 
> survival to stick with  Dursleys, wouldn't it be logical 
> to make SURE that nobody knew where he is?
> 

bboyminn now:

I once again remind people that knowledge isn't universal.
I'm sure many people knew Harry was living with muggles. 
That seems apparent when he reaches Hogwarts; other students
make comments on occassion. But, it is quite a different 
thing for them to know exactly where Harry lived.

So, much like all the information passed on by Dumbledore, 
different people knew different things in proportion to their 
need to know as assessed by Dumbledore. Order members may have
had details that the general public did not. Others may have
had the most general information, and merely suspected who 
Harry might be based on his general appearance and his scar, 
and merely acknowledge him. 


> Alla continues:
>
> If that is OKAY that it was easy enough to find Harry and as
> you are saying DE or former DE were so afraid of Harry anyways, 
> couldn't he  grew up with some.... I don't know less abusive, 
> decent folks?
> 
> Especially since as you are saying Harry has two related 
> protections. He needs protection given by Lily against 
> Voldemort, but the additional protection on Privet Drive,...
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> Alla
>


bboyminn concludes:

Most of what I needed to say, I said above. The need and 
degree of Harry's protection is always changing. The need
at the moment Voldemort was lost is quite different but no
less real than Harry's need for protection at age 10. However,
it is in the moment that Voldemort is lost that Dumbledore 
needs to make some decisions. 

As to why some wizards are able to come to Privet Drive while
alleged protection are in place and we assume Dark Wizards can
not, I think the key is based in intent to do harm. 

It's not so much that no one can find Harry at Privet Drive, 
but that no one can harm him there. Mr. Weasley, Ron and the
Twins mean Harry no harm, and are therefore able to enter 
Privet Drive. The Order guards who take Harry to Grimmauld 
Place mean Harry no harm, so they are able to come and get 
Harry. Voldemort clearly knows where Harry is, but admits he 
can't 'touch' Harry there, and further acknowledges that 
Dumbledore's protections are extremely powerful. 

So, the question isn't whether Voldemort or the DE's can find
Harry, the question is whether they can harm him while he is
under the protection of blood that Dumbledore placed on Privet
Drive, and apparently they can not.

It is conceivable that DE's and Voldemort could actually come
to Privet Drive, they may even be able to enter the house, but
the minute they try to harm Harry, the protection kicks in 
and kicks bum.

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn