Being Good and Evil (was:Re: Harry's arrogance (was Evil Snape)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 154398

> >>Marion:
> > No, I'm not saying that Draco is Good and Harry is Evil. 
> > I'm just showing how scary Harry's selfreferencing way of 
> > thinking is. "I'm Good, so what I do is justified. They 
> > are Bad, so what they do is Bad. When I do the same things 
> > They do, it's For The Good. If They do the same things I do, 
> > it's Evil".

> >>houyhnhnm:
> This makes me think of Martin Buber's second stage of evil.  
> (In "Images of Good and Evil" which I reread in November, 2004)
> <snip of quote>
> This is Voldemort, fully realized in the second stage of evil, 
> as his own creator.  But this is also the path many of the 
> other characters, including Harry, are heading down when they 
> choose to act based on the reasoning that "I'm Good, so what 
> I do is justified".
> Hermione's decision to use enchanted coins based on the Dark 
> Marks of the Death Eaters is picked up by Draco, so that whether 
> "justified" or not, her action has an evil consequence.

Betsy Hp:
Of the trio Hermione scares me the most in regards to this sort of 
thinking.  I mean, she's branded a girl *on the face* and it doesn't 
seem to phase her a bit.  (I think it's noteworthy that two students 
walked away from that year with words etched into their skin: Harry 
and Marietta. So Hermione seems to have taken a page out of 
Umbridge's book while she was also imitating Death Eaters.)

> >>houyhnhnm:
> Likewise Fred and George's decision to put Montague in the 
> vanishing cabinet leads directly to the attack on Hogwarts, 
> regardless of whether or not they were "justified" in getting 
> back at Montague for his abuse of power.  Their decision to 
> collude in the importation of contraband into Hogwarts leads 
> indirectly to the near death of their brother, however "justified" 
> they were in making a profit and however innocent of any desire 
> to do harm.  Because, after all, they are "good".  But their 
> actions lead to evil all the same.

Betsy Hp:
Oh yeah, the twins are so completely evil.  I mean, Draco nearly 
kills someone by mistake and he falls apart over it.  The twins 
shrug and move on.  And Draco was doing what he did to uphold family 
honor and protect the lives of those he loves.  The twins were upset 
about house points.   Blech, nasty little psychopaths, I say. (I'm, 
um, not a fan of the twins. <g>)

But really, a great many of the "good" guys seem to follow that sort 
of code, that it's okay to hurt someone as long as they're not "one 
of us".  The Longbottoms engage in infanticide, Hagrid takes his 
anger at an adult out on a child, Hermione and the twins do their 
thing, McGonagall takes her fear and anger out on her weakest 
student...

I think these sort of actions wouldn't bother me quite so much if 
they were *seen* as bad behavior.  I *think* JKR is relatively 
neutral when those scenes occur.  For example, she doesn't tell us 
whether it's good or bad that if Neville had been a squib his family 
would have killed him.  But it'd be nice if Harry started to pick up 
that sometimes his friends behave badly, that his side isn't as 
shiny as all that.  

I believe Luna pointed out that Ron is sometimes quite nasty in the 
things he says, and Harry acknowledged it, IIRC.  So maybe there's 
hope.

> >>Marion:
> <snip>
> I don't like Harry *or* Draco. But of the two, I find Harry the   
> most dangerous. Not because of what he does but the way he        
> *thinks*.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I like them both (and Snape, too!).  And I think Draco and Harry are 
both dangerous in a similar way: they will both do what it takes if 
they feel they have to.  Which is why Harry recognized that Draco 
*was* a danger.  Just as Draco realized how Harry would feel about 
Black in PoA, Harry realized how Draco would feel with his dad in 
prison.  They have similar levels of family pride.  Something both 
Hermione and Ron seem to lack, which is why neither of them could 
take Draco seriously. (Neither Hermione nor Ron have had their 
families attacked in the way Draco and Harry have, so I'm not saying 
they couldn't get to that place.)

It's interesting though, because I think Draco has the harder path 
to walk and so may end up wiser than Harry.  After all, Harry hasn't 
had to question his definitions of good and evil.  All of his 
friends are good and all of his foes are evil.  It's been easy for 
him.  While Draco is having to question his assumptions, Harry seems 
quite safe in keeping his.

Ooh, though that is a *perfect* argument for DDM!Snape.  Because it 
would be strange for the book to end with Draco the more well-
rounded and adult character.  But if Harry *does* have to question 
his assumptions, just as Draco is having to do, than they'll both 
grow in wisdom.

Betsy Hp, who kind of meandered all over the place in this reply, 
but still felt free to adjust the subject line <g>