Being Good and Evil (was:Re: Harry's arrogance (was Evil Snape)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 154544

> Betsy Hp:
<SNIP>
> Look, two characters get branded in OotP: Marietta and Harry.  We 
> like Harry so it's Bad that he was branded.  We don't like 
Marietta 
> so it's Good that she was branded.  And that sort of moralizing is 
> ripe for abuse.  Because you're not judging someone by their 
actions 
> or a set of rules.  You're judging them by how much you like them, 
> and with your own sense of righteousness.

Alla:

No, absolutely not. I do NOT judge Marietta based on how much I 
dislike her, I judge her based on her ACTION, that is why it matters 
to me  very much what kind of person receives the punishment.

I would not as far as to say that Marietta is a completely horrible 
person, she is too minor character for that, but I absolutely think 
that her action is horrible. THUS because and ONLY because her 
action is horrible I think that she deserved everything she got.



> Betsy Hp:
> Marietta does not and should not come into play.  I'm talking 
> actions not personalities.  The argument is that if someone claims 
> they are good they should behave in a good manner.  No matter the 
> provocation from the other side.  If Ron raped Marietta to "teach 
> her a lesson" would that be okay?  You know, because Marietta is a 
> traitor and Ron is a good guy?  Of course not.  Because rape is 
> bad.  It's a bad action that a good person would not do.  Even if 
> they hated the other person.  Like or dislike shouldn't have 
> anything to do with it, IMO.  

Alla:

Like or dislike should not have to do anything with it, yes, but in 
book reality the fact that guys that committed bad things are often 
get punished IMO should matter, yes.

Rape is such an unconscionable action that it cannot come into play 
as carmic punishment at all, but what Marietta got? IMO very very 
proportionate punishment IMO.

You know - for Marietta to remember that to betray - equals bad 
consequences, if her own conscience was not strong enough to tell 
her that.

I don't necessarily think that the punishment should have stayed for 
so long, but otherwise I don't have a problem with it. In the books 
of course and in the books only.

I don't advocate taking justice in own hands in RL, but very often 
in Potterverse that is exactly what Trio is forced to do and should 
do, because the world around them is too corrupt and the adults are 
too often portrayed as an idiots who cannot do much for them anyways.

Love Mcgonagal, but find her advice to Harry about Umbridge to NOT 
being helpful at all for example.

 

> > >>Alla:
> > But should Draco's POV matter in evaluating his parents?
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Exactly!!  Should POV matter?  Hermione branded a girl permenantly 
> on the face.  Does the "why" even matter?  Should it?  Shouldn't 
> there be a governing set of rules that seperate the good from the 
> bad?  Shouldn't we be able to point to the good guys and 
> say, "they'd never..."?

Alla:

OF COURSE the "why" should matter, how can it not to be?

Otherwise even if Snape turns out to be DD!M ( shudders), his 
betrayal of Voldemort is really no better than Peter betrayal of his 
friends, isn't it?

Actions, actions, and consequences. Hermione did not brand MArietta 
because she FELT like it, she did not even know WHOM she was 
branding, she only knew that IF somebody betrays the group, NO 
MATTER who she/he will get branded.

I can argue that Hermione was punishing an action, NOT a person.

 
Betsy Hp:
<SNIP>
 There is never 
> a time that Harry or his friends take an action that suggests they 
> are better people than Draco.  In fact, there are times that their 
> behavior is *worst* than Draco's and his friends.  (Draco has 
never 
> branded someone who crossed him, for example.)

Alla:

No, Draco never branded anyone, he only almost killed two people and 
meticulously planned to kill Dumbledore.

Draco never branded anyone, he just had no problem pretending to be 
injured to make an animal killed and Hagrid fired.

I will never be able to see Draco's better behaviour and no, it does 
not mean that I see Harry as perfect, it is just to me there is a 
very low barrier to behave better than Draco does and Trio seems to 
pass it most of the times IMO.

JMO,

Alla.