Evil Hermione Was:Re: Evil Snape

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 154571

SSSusan, earlier:
>>> Pippin gave a couple of examples of Hermione & Ron letting Harry
down in "grand scale" ways. To those I'd also add Hermione's handling
of the setup of Dumbledore's Army. I believe she REALLY handled that
poorly, where Harry was concerned. She knew she was making it a
much bigger group than she'd led Harry on to believe, and she also
didn't prepare him at all for what she planned for that first 
gathering in the Hog's Head. It's like she knew what SHE wanted, and 
she didn't really care whether it's what Harry was comfortable with 
or wanted or not.

She had her reasons for doing it as she did, but I think the simple
truth is that she believed that Harry didn't know what was best and
that she did. I find that obnoxious & arrogant, myself. Some
listees may agree with her, but in terms of how **Harry** felt, I
think he did feel quite let down by her. He was ANGRY with her in
the Hog's Head, and I think he actually felt somewhat betrayed by
what seemed to him as her conning him or setting him up. Or at
least that's how I read the scene.

Whether in the end it all worked out okay or not, in the MOMENT I
think Harry really did feel let down by her. Hermione really put him 
in an awkward position, and he was forced into doing/saying things he 
really did not want to. <<<


Jen D. wrote:
> > SSSusan!
> > Glad to see you back! But I think you are making way too much of 
> > the over-large crowd that greeted Harry at the first DA meeting. 
> > I know he was shocked, a little irritated but let down? I can't 
> > see it.  Maybe surprised so many people wanted to learn DADA and 
> > from him.  After all, he was just coming off being smeared by the 
> > Ministry. I will have to go back and read carefully, but wasn't 
> > he actually excited after the initial shock wore off? I recall 
> > him thinking about lesson plans and getting quite jazzed. 
> > Sometimes your friends do know what you need better than 
> > yourself. This is a fine example of Hermione's know-it-all 
> > behavior but not a let-down, not a failure to stand by or work 
> > for Harry's greater good.
> > Jen D. (back herself from a time in another strange land and glad 
> > to be here...)

SSSusan:
Jen D., glad to see you back, as well!
Harry *did* get jazzed, even before the group ever had its first 
meeting.  He *did* think about lesson plans before Hermione even got 
back to him about doing the club.  I would never argue that Harry 
didn't want to do the DA on some level, even when he expressed 
uncertainty.  And Hermione & Ron are both right that the DA will be 
good for Harry.  

That's not the point I was trying to make, though.  See below. :-) 


Annemehr:
> *joins the party*
> 
> I agree with Jen D. on this one. Only those really close to you,
> who know you really well have the right and insight to do this, but
> sometimes a friend just has to step in and do the right thing.
> And as it turned out, the DA was the only thing that made Harry want
> to go back to Hogwarts at all after spending Christmas at Sirius's
> house. Not that a good outcome is in itself any excuse for sticking
> your nose in where it doesn't belong, but I take this particular
> good outcome as a sign that Hermione actually did know what she was
> doing this time.


SSSusan:
*Always* good to have Annemehr join the party! :-) 

I think we're actually responding to this in slightly different 
ways.  If we look back at my original post (and the phrasing is still 
there, above), what I was trying to say was keyed on *"in the 
moment"* as opposed to "as it turned out" or "in looking back."  I 
totally agree with you both that the DA turned out to be a wonderful 
thing in the end – for many people, not the least of whom was Harry.  

My point, though, which I don't think I made very well, was that at 
that moment in the HH, Harry *did* feel very let down by Hermione, 
and I think he had legitimate reason to feel that.  NOT because she 
did something wrong in suggesting the DA in the first place but 
because of *how* she went about it, what she did and didn't tell 
Harry, and how she left him hanging.  In short, I don't believe she 
thought hard enough about how BEST to do this for Harry's sake, and 
that is the way in which she let him down.

Let's look back at the scene, if we could, so that hopefully I can 
make my position clearer.  

While Hermione had said *days previously* that she believed anyone 
who wanted to come should be allowed to come, just before anyone else 
arrives at the HH, this happens:

********************************************************************
<begin quote>

"So, who did you say is supposed to be meeting us?" Harry asked
.

"Just a couple of people," Hermione repeated
.

First came Neville with Dean and Lavender, who were closely followed 
by Parvati and Padma Patil with (Harry's stomach did a back-flip) Cho 
and one of her usually-giggling girlfriends, then
 Luna Lovegood; 
then Katie Bell, Alicia Spinnet and Angelina Johnson, Colin and 
Dennis Creevey, Ernie Macmillan, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Hannah 
Abbott, a Hufflepuff girl with a long plait down her back whose name 
Harry did not know; three Ravenclaw boys he was pretty sure were 
called Anthony Goldstein, Michael Corner and Terry Boot, Ginny, 
closely followed by a tall skinny blond boy with an upturned nose 
whom Harry recognized vaguely as being a member of the Hufflepuff 
Quidditch team and, bringing up the rear, Fred and George Weasley 
with their friend Lee Jordan
.

"A couple of people?" said Harry hoarsely to Hermione.  "A COUPLE OF 
PEOPLE?"

"Yes, well, the idea seemed quite popular."

Harry watched numbly
 until the horrible thought occurred to him that 
they might be expecting some kind of speech, at which he rounded on 
Hermione.

"What have you been telling people?" he said in a low voice.  "What 
are they expecting?"

"I've told you, they just want to hear what you've got to say," said 
Hermione soothingly; but Harry continued to look at her so furiously 
that she added quickly, "You don't have to do anything yet, I'll 
speak to them first."

<snip>

"Well
 erm
 well, you know why you're here.  Erm
 well, Harry here 
had the idea – I mean" (Harry had thrown her a sharp look) "I had the 
idea
."

<end quote>

Then Hermione goes on to explain that she thought the group was a 
good idea because Voldemort was back.  Of course, then, several of 
those in attendance wanted PROOF of his return.  

<Back to quote>

It had just dawned on him why there were so many people there.  He 
thought Hermione should have seen this coming.  Some of these people –
 maybe even most of them – had turned up in the hopes of hearing 
Harry's story firsthand.

<snip> "If you've come to hear exactly what it looks like when 
Voldemort murders someone I can't help you," Harry said.  His temper, 
always so close to the surface these days, was rising again.  
"I 
don't want to talk about Cedric Diggory, all right?  So if that's 
what you're here for, you might as well clear out."

He cast an angry look in Hermione's direction.  This was, he felt, 
all her fault; she had decided to display him like some sort of freak 
and of course they had all turned up to see just how wild his story 
was.

[OotP, Canadian edition, pp. 301-304]


SSSusan again:
See, to me, there is no question that *in that moment* Harry was 
livid; he was furious with Hermione; he felt *let down* by her.   Was 
the DA a good idea?  Yes, in the end.  Did Hermione PREPARE Harry as 
best she could?  I would say absolutely not.  Did she think through 
the best way to start up the group?  I would argue absolutely not.  
Why not begin with a small group of people Harry *trusted* -- say, 
Neville, Ginny, the twins, Dean & Lavender, his Quidditch teammates?  
Presumably they would have been gentler in their questioning than 
people he only "vaguely" recognized or didn't even know, like the 
Hufflepuff girl!

If I were Harry, I, too, would have been furious.  How dare she allow 
people to come to an *opening, organizational* meeting, pretty 
much "cornering" Harry, and then attempt to pass the whole thing off 
as *Harry's* own idea?  If Hermione had thought things through more 
fully, had been a little more empathetic concerning Harry, this could 
have gotten off to a much smoother start, Harry would not have felt 
so frustrated and angry (and not to mention that Marietta Edgecombe 
might never have become a part of the group).  

So I just can't back down from including this as a moment where Harry 
felt let down in a major way by Hermione, regardless of the fact that 
the DA *turned out* to be a good thing in the end.  It was the way it 
developed, the way she kept Harry in the dark, the way she hadn't 
thought through what was likely to happen to him.  I think it's 
pretty clear from JKR's writing that Harry felt that way, too.

Siriusly Snapey Susan