Is Snape good or evil? (longer)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 148965

Lupinlore:
> Not infantilizing, necessarily, I don't think.  However, I DO think 
> that such a statement, without an attempt to explain the facts as 
> much as one can and to lay out one's reasons OTHER than sixteen 
> years, etc. is profoundly condescending.  It amounts to, "I know 
> better than you so shut up and do as you're told." 

Pippin:
It's one of those eternal dilemmas, I'm afraid. If there was an easy 
answer we'd have found it by now. :)

Doing it your way would condescend by expecting the
hypothetical youngster to be satisfied with an incomplete explanation
which moreover misrepresented one's priorities. Like  Dumbledore
with Minerva when she demanded to know why Harry was being
left at Privet Drive.  *That* was condescending, no? 

Dumbledore didn't mention the blood protection to McGonagall, probably
not least because it wouldn't be sealed until Petunia took Harry in. But without
it, the other reasons aren't nearly good enough. 

Lupinlore:
 But  in THIS particular instance, condescension is Dumbledore's downfall. 

Pippin:
It is? There seems to be a strain of what I can only call magical thinking
in this hypothesis (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.) If this is the
tragedy of Dumbledore's downfall, that if only he'd shared his reasons 
for trusting Snape he'd have realized how inadequate they were, then it
should be clear from the text that if he hadn't trusted Snape he might 
still be alive. 

There's a clear moment when Caesar should have listened
to the omens, Hamlet should have acted decisively, Juliet should have
gone for help, etc. But if Dumbledore had put an extra-heavy-duty
sleeping charm on Snape before heading out to the cave, he'd still
have ended up wandless, critically ill, facing four Death Eaters and his
 would-be assassin, with the Order trapped in a losing battle
below. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that it greatly improves his
chances.  It looks like he'd still have died, either from the
poison, or because one of the DE's would have panicked and killed him
before help arrived.

Pippin:
 It might help if there were  someone who could mirror those 
feelings for him. I think that's a role Dumbledore hoped Harry could 
play in Snape's healing. 

Lupinlore: 
> Well, I think you are right.  The problem is, that means Dumbledore 
> is kind of like an idiot savant.  He's an absolute genius at some 
> things, but at other's he's so strangely blind and downright moronic 
> that you have to wonder if he hasn't suffered a series of small 
> strokes over the years.  

Pippin:
I hesitate to ask, but why moronic? People can change their values and
habits at any time of  life. They get religion, go on the wagon, change
their politics from hardcore conservative to liberal green, etc.

And Snape, I daresay, did change some in HBP. He's still a terror to Harry when
provoked, but it seemed to to take a lot more than previously to provoke him.
Harry no longer thinks that every class with Snape is sheer torture, and 
Neville doesn't seem to be troubled at all. 

It could just be that Snape did get something out of the occlumency
lessons. I don't think he really believed until then that Harry's life
with the Muggles could have been as bad as everyone said, because
if it was how could Harry possibly be so, well, normal?

 He couldn't copy Harry's coping strategy, because Harry seems able
to let go of things and Snape can't. But he might have realized that there
*are* coping strategies and you aren't weak or a coward if you use them.
While perhaps he couldn't  hide the memories themselves the way Harry can, 
he could, being an occlumens, hide from  the pain. It'd be dreadfully
ironic if it was some sign of progress like this that persuaded Dumbledore
to give him the DADA job.

Lupinlore:
> The scene in the cave is very interesting, all right.  But I'm not 
> sure what to make of it.  Was DD expressing his own emotions?  If so, 
> emotions over what?  Was he expressing someone ELSE's emotions?  If 
> so, whose and over what?  Could they be Snape's emotions?  Wormtail's?
> Did DD make a mistake and lose someone he loved?  Could this, as you 
> say, mean that Snape's remorse (genuine or not) resonates with him 
> profoundly?  Could this help explain his willingness to sacrifice 
> almost everything else to guard against possible threats to Harry?
> 

Pippin:
I'm almost sure they were Dumbledore's own emotions -- but I think
Dumbledore's ideal is that every life is precious.  Maybe he didn't 
understand that until whatever experience he relived in the cave.
Makes you wonder what was in that goo -- concentrated essence
of dementor?



Pippin