Trusting Snape - Susan and Tammy

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 149071

SSSusan earlier:
> > but there are also DDM!Snapers, like me, who [gasp!] ACKNOWLEDGE 
> > Snape's many deep & varied flaws!
 
PJ:
> Maybe they're just the loudest voices and the most determined 
> to "convert" others to their way of thinking?  While there may be 
> actually more than a couple who see Snape as you see him, you tend 
> to get drowned out by the "misunderstood, damaged but inherently 
> good as gold Snape" group.  At least for me.  

SSSusan:
Fair enough.  And as I'm not about trying to convert anyone, maybe I 
don't speak loudly enough. ;-)  Just remember, if you would, that 
there ARE some of us DDM!Snapers out here who don't believe in 
Angelic!Snape!


PJ:
> And here, as I've said,  is where I lose any possibility of 
> agreement on DDM!Snape in a *big* way.  I don't believe Snape 
> tried to teach Harry occlumency as Dumbledore wished as even DD 
> tells Harry (paraphrased) that he didn't count on old wounds 
> getting in the way. 


SSSusan:
I guess I *do* believe that Snape TRIED with Occlumency.  Did he 
succeed?  Nope.  Was Harry at least partly to blame for the 
failure?  I believe so.  But Snape, imo, came as close as we'd ever 
seen to that point in the series to actually attempting to answer 
some questions for Harry, to actually explaining things somewhat, 
and to even **almost** complimenting him (as close as Snape could 
likely ever come! <g>).  So, yeah, it was a failure, and I think it 
speaks to one of those failings of character in Snape that I 
mentioned before, that he was unable to set aside those old 
wounds... but in my view the evidence points to Snape's actually 
*trying* to do DD's wishes... at least at first.


PJ:
> and I don't believe Dumbledore would ever ask Snape to kill him on 
> the tower.  Dumbledore is never said to have killed anyone... 
> vanquished yes, but killed, no.  Why would he insist that someone, 
> even an ex DE, do something he wasn't willing to do?  Especially 
> if he were already dying?

SSSusan:
Yes, this is where a lot of people get "tripped up" on the DDM!Snape 
position (hi, Alla! :-)).  My response is always the same:  remember 
that DD *did* confirm to Harry, when Harry asked, "Does this mean 
that one of us has to kill the other?" that the answer was, in his 
opinion, YES.  I fully believe that DD is pragmatic when it comes to 
war.  One must make the right choice, even if it is horrendously 
difficult, and war certainly often presents us with horrendously 
difficult choices. I think he might well have believed that in war 
killing *is* necessary... and, for the reasons I already spelled out 
previously, might have seen in his own death an opportunity for the 
cause to be advanced, even at the awful cost of his own life.

(And for those who really strongly desire to see Snape punished, 
I've always pointed out that, if he *is* DDM and truly cared about 
the man, and truly wanted to leave behind his DE days, DD's 
presenting him with this awful choice might be just the 
painful "comeuppance" or punishment that Snape "deserved!")


PJ:
> And while Snape's actions on the tower physically got Draco off of 
> it, it did nothing to ensure his *future* in the Wizarding World.  
> Quite the opposite actually.  Now they're both on the run and 
> going to Azkaban if caught.  What was the purpose of saving 
> Draco's life simply to see him spend it wasted in prison?  That 
> would be so very cruel.

SSSusan:
At the risk of sounding trite, the purpose would have been to save 
Draco's SOUL, even if it put his LIFE at risk.  

I believe that DD believed that Draco was not yet a lost cause, that 
there was a chance he could be stopped from going down the path his 
father had taken.  Saving Draco's life, even if he would still be in 
danger, would be worth it if, in the process, Draco "saw the light" 
and elected not to go down the DE path.


PJ:
> It also does nothing for the House Unity situation other than make 
> the gulf between them wider still.  The entire WW will soon know, 
> whether by word of mouth or Daily Prophet, that 2 Slytherin Death 
> Eaters (and yes, it will be assumed they're both Death Eaters 
> whether they are or not) have conspired to kill their beloved 
> headmaster and put the future of Hogwarts in jeapardy.

SSSusan:
Yep, I'll grant you this one.  AND the fact that Harry's farther 
away than ever from being willing to listen to Snape and/or to work 
with him.

Again, all I can say is that, presented the options in that moment, 
I think DD went with what he saw as the best, if still imperfect, 
choice.

 
PJ:
> Sorry, I'm not trying to be objectionable at all.  I'm just trying 
> to work out the story like everyone else.  :-)

SSSusan:
Yep, that's what we all come down to. :-)

Siriusly Snapey Susan, wondering just HOW LONG before JKR puts us 
out of our misery.