Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 149096

> Lupinlore:
> > I doubt it.  I think you may be right that the MAJORITY of 
people 
> > will be able to accept this kind of outcome, with reservations 
here 
> > and there.  But there are a lot of people -- not the majority, 
but a 
> > lot -- who are deeply invested in the idea of some kind of final 
> > BANGS that will reveal much of what we've been told as being 
> > smokescreen or misdirection -- that is, Snape didn't REALLY kill 
> > Dumbledore, Snape doesn't REALLY hate Harry it's all an act, 
Snape 
> > isn't REALLY an unfair teacher its just Harry's POV, Dumbledore 
> > didn't REALLY make mistakes it's all part of his brilliant 
master 
> > plan,  Dumbledore and Snape don't REALLY disagree about love 
it's 
> > just good cop/bad cop, etc.  Those people probably would not 
find 
> > this solution congenial.

Alla: You know, frankly I don't know how after HBP "Snape is just 
acting in his relationship with Harry and does not really hate him" 
can be looked upon as anything, but incredibly weak. IMO of course.

"You and your filthy father" speaks volumes to me.

Sydney: 
> Most bizarrely, I tend to think the louder and more outraged howls
> will come from those who expect Snape to have simply killed 
Dumbledore
> because he's the Bad Guy, and that he's not simply going to be 
killed,
> imprisoned, or run out of town and good riddance.  Because pretty 
much
> all your other points would require a booming authorial voice to 
come
> from On High like a badly adjusted Pensive, declaring that "Snape
> hates Harry and it's as simple as that.  Yes you're right, Snape 
was a
> Bad Teacher.  This is exactly how you're supposed to feel about
> everything."  Whether Snape is a good or a bad teacher or even a 
good
> or a bad person is never, ever, ever, never going to be a settled
> question, because it simply isn't a settleable question, it's a 
matter
> of opinion of what you value in teachers or people.  Vive la
> difference, says I.

Alla:

Erm... I am completely with LL on this one. But it is an interesting 
thought about accepting different outcomes in Snape and Harry 
confrontations.

You know, Sydney, I really AM open to many different outcomes, well 
except one of them of course, but I think if well written almost 
anything could satisfy me at the end ( not as much as I would want 
to, but still).

For example - I most certainly want Snape to suffer in book 7 A LOT -
 physically, emotionally, if it would be both, it would be better, 
although I certainly prefer emotional suffering for him.

But I happen to think that one way or another JKR WILL show it, no 
matter what outcome will be.

SO, while I would LOVE to see Snape at the end of the story in the 
Azkaban cell for life (without dementors present, I would not wish 
Dementors even on Snape) with Harry watching Aurors taking dear 
Snapey into custody, I would take ANY versions of Snape suffering, 
even if they are very short termed, so to speak.

Would I love Snape to have a lifedebt to Harry at the end of the 
story? Sure I would, but since my main wish is to see Snape 
powerless in Snape/Harry confrontation, I would take five minutes 
and few sentences of such confrontation and will be a completely 
happy reader, if such confrontation is written well.

So, you see Sydney, it is not necessarily will be neutral ground, 
but seeing different ways for your favorite idea to come true at the 
end. To me anyways.


There is for example one thing which I am pretty sure will not 
happen in book 7 in Snape/Harry relationship. My crow is right here, 
ready to be cooked, but I am going to make a prediction - Harry will 
NOT be apologising to Snape for anything, no matter what side Snape 
is going to end up on. There are way too many things that Snape 
wronged Harry for, so I happen to think that Harry will be in charge 
in book 7. I fully suspect that at some point of book 7 Harry will 
throw at Snape some variation of Dumbledore "it is not your mercy 
that matters, it is mine"

Would I prefer Harry to punish Snape instead of forgiving him? Sure, 
I would, but as long as Harry is in charge and Snape for at least 
few sentences is powerless and is uncapable of doing anything to 
Harry, but be at his mercy, I will be very happy.
Now, this is something that I both don't want to happen and think 
that it won't happen. 


 
Sydney:
<SNIP>
> The only argument against it I've heard-- the only argument that 
deals
> with the fact that the FIRST BLOODY THING DUMBLEDORE DOES WHEN 
SNAPE
> ENTERS THE SCENE IS START PLEADING-- is that JKR didn't think it 
was
> important what Dumbledore was feeling here.
 I can't come up with any
> response to that but.. wha...?!  No, really, what?!?  Rowling.. 
didn't
> care.. what Dumbledore was feeling.. when Snape betrayed and killed
> him.  What?!?  
> 

Alla:

Not not important, but Harry looks at the scene, Harry's observation 
(or narrator observation) is that for the first time in his life DD 
was pleading. Frankly, I felt all the shock that could be there.

Now, we don't know what DD was pleading for, this is true, but as I 
said if DD was pleading "don't betray me", the remark is there.

Oh, if DD resigned himself to his fate ( and as I said many times, 
DD of course won't plead for his life usually, but knowing that 
Harry is here, half trained and with Horcruxes in front of him, I 
sure  can see DD abandoning his old habits) and pleaded with 
Snape "Please not Harry kill me instead", I also think that Harry is 
shocked enough from DD's pleading , just as some of the readers 
were. :)

So, Sydney, we shall see, we shall see. :-)

JMO,

Alla