[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149150

> Alla:
>
> No, sorry, I disagree. First of all, it is NOT a fact that JKR is
> obligated to describe in details DD change of mind about Snape's
> loyalties.

Magpie:
She didn't say JKR had to describe it in detail at all.  She said it had to 
happen, or at the very least (being very generous) have a place to happen, 
which it does not in this scene.  This is not even just the rules of 
storytelling but the rules of life.  We do not see Dumbledore's shock 
through Harry's eyes or anyone else's eyes.  We know Harry is in shock to 
hear Dumbledore pleading (as soon as Snape enters the room) and that's it. 
Harry is shocked by Dumbledore pleading.  Dumbledore begins to plead as soon 
as Snape enters the room.  Harry has reason to be shocked (Dumbledore is 
pleading).  Dumbledore has no reason to be shocked.  Snape's been entering 
rooms for years.  Why is it suddenly a betrayal for him to do so?

> Alla:
>
> Erm.... Now I am confused. Why do you think that only wizard of
> Voldemort's caliber can lead DE? I mean, sure, Snape is no
> Voldemort, although there are plenty of possible parallels in canon
> between two of them, IMO
> BUT IMO Snape does not HAVE TO be just as powerful as Voldemort is,
> in order to be in charge of DE. All that he needs is respect of the
> DE and as I said IMO it is clear that they do respect him from the
> Tower scene.> Speculative? Sure it is. Out of realm of possibilities, I 
> don't
> think so.

Magpie:
I said that yes, Snape is certainly competent enough to come up with a plan 
some of the DEs (not all) would listen to if Voldemort was defeated.  That 
does not make him Voldemort Redux or the number 1 wizard in the world.  The 
DE as a group of people temporarily under the direction of Snape or Lucius 
Malfoy or any other DE is a totally different kettle of fish than the DE as 
Voldemort's minions.  Snape's even asserting authority through Voldemort in 
that scene, reminding them of what the Dark Lord wants and having to yell at 
them.

lealess:
As to why Draco soured on him, aside from Draco's hankering after "glory"... 
it was probably just an adolescent phase.  But if a kid's self-assertion is
all it takes to make Snape fold, then Snape is going to make a lousy Dark 
Lord.  Look how ineffectively he dealt with Draco!  Now imagine Draco trying 
the "back off, loser" routine on Voldemort.  He tried it
on Dumbledore, and was finally convinced to lower his wand.

Magpie:
Exactly.  Snape's human and Voldemort is inhuman.  I think Draco actually 
still adores Snape, but just as Harry went through a phase of being angry 
and disrespectful of DD, so is Draco challenging his father figure (with 
Lucius in jail).  And not only is Snape not able to command respect, he 
doesn't seem to have too much of a problem with Draco's disrespect.  Perhaps 
because he's not a megalomaniac.  Not only do I not see any way for Snape to 
realistically rule the WW, I honestly see no signs that this is his goal at 
all.

-m