Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 149155

 
Sydney:
<SNIP>
> So I'll say it again.  The Dumbledore  who is pleading with Snape is
> the same one who trusts him  completely.  The only alternative is a
> typo that transposed the  line where Harry is frightened by
> Dumbledore's pleading voice to the  wrong part of the passage, to
> before Snape could have formed an evil  plan or Dumbledore could 
have
> anticipated it. You are free to  theorize such a typo, or you are 
free
> to theorize a JKR who was  simply careless and forgot to put the
> pleading in the logical place. Or  you are free to say, 'at the 
expense
> of what the text clearly says,  I'm going assume, because of what
> happens afterwards, that Snape gave  some sort of cue to Dumbledore
> that he had switched sides, and that  Dumbledore absorbed this cue 
and
> did a 180 on his assessment of what  Snape was likely to do-- BEFORE
> SNAPE HAS DONE ANYTHING OTHER THAN ENTER  THE SCENE. And neither
> Snape's 'I'm evil' cue, nor Dumbledore's change  of mind, are in the
> text or even given a reasonable vacuum to exist in  the text, but 
this
> is fine with you.  If you just say that,  then I'll leave you 
alone. <g>

Alla:

No, sorry, I  disagree. First of all, it is NOT a fact that JKR is 
obligated to describe  in details DD change of mind about Snape's 
loyalties. Yes, yes, I know rules  of storytelling, etc. I don't 
think that JKR is obligated to follow all  rules of storytelling, if 
such rules exist.

Second of all, even if  JKR wanted to show DD shock, she as I said in 
the earlier post IMO she had  shown it VERY clearly, through Harry's 
eyes. You may think it is not enough  for you, you may think it 
breaks some rules of storytelling, but IF the  shock that Harry feels 
from DD pleading is genuine, it is quite enough for  me to see DD 
shock even if through Harry's eyes.

So, no, I don't  think it is a typo, I think Harry's frightening of 
DD voice is where it is  supposed to be and YES, I read the text 
several times.

And yes, I  think it can easily point to guilty Snape.
 
 
Julie now:
I still don't quite understand your POV, Alla, so I'm asking for a
bit more elucidation. We all seem to agree that Snape enters
the scene and Dumbledore almost immediately says his name
in a pleading tone. I think we also agree that Snape and Dumbledore
have not made direct eye contact, and that Harry (our narrator for  the
scene, who describes Snape scanning the scene before him) does
not see any particular expression on Snape's face at that early 
moment (it is later that the hate and revlusion appears). Can we
also agree there would be no reason for Dumbledore to consider
the DE's informing Snape of Draco's failure to have any bearing on
Snape's true alliegance, as Snape has on Dumbledore's own orders
been pretending to be a DE, and thus it would be expected that the
DEs would address Snape as one of their own?
 
Now, this leads me to my question for you, and anyone who interprets
Dumbledore's pleading tone when he first says "Severus" as indicative
of him suddenly realizing that Snape has turned (or is about to turn)  on
him. *What* was the cue that caused Dumbledore to so very quickly
come to this conclusion? After all, only hours earlier he had for  about
the hundreth time in the book insisted that he trusted Snape  absolutely.
 
So, why, with nothing more obvious than Snape walking into the scene,
would Dumbledore without any forethought almost immediately suspect 
betrayal? Was it Legilimency--he read Snape's mind and discovered his
real intentions (though this doesn't explain why he couldn't do so  before)?
Or maybe he lied and never trusted Snape (which gives us  a Dumbledore
lying repeatedly on the subject for no discernable reason at all)?  Or
is there something I'm missing, some clue I misread? 
 
Julie 


 


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